John Pollock & Wai Tingreview AEW Double or Nothing 2020 featuring The Elite vs. The Inner Circle in a Stadium Stampede match from Daily’s Place in Jacksonville, FL.
WH Park joins us to discuss the passing of Hana Kimura at the start of the show.
I’ve got to say I’m extremely disappointed in your guys’ dismissal of the drowning spot. A man who was beloved in the wrestling industry drowned to death less than a week ago and they decided to leave in a spot which seems to be making light of the concept of DROWNING. How is this not an issue? The fact that it’s a comedy spot actually makes it worse. They should have immediately cut the spot, but nope. We had to leave it in there because they either thought it was somehow still appropriate and funny or they apparently correctly believed that even the most hardened wrestling journalists would refuse to call them out. Not to mention that yesterday was the anniversary of Owen’s death so it’s not like making fun of any wrestler dying would have been in good taste. Abhorrent decision making on the part of AEW.
People being up in arms over this seem to be looking for something to be outraged about.
Shad’s death is incredibly sad and tragic. Don’t belittle it by feigning outrage over something that’s clearly a comedy spot.
And guess what, they probably didn’t even think of Shad’s death in coming up with the spot, because nobody involved saw parallels. Not people nefarious attempt to mock a death in a match and sneak it by everyone.
Honestly, I’d say WWE allowing a spot using a weight machine to choke somebody mirroring the Benoit suicide is a whole lot more tone deaf - as it featured people who knew the man, and in a company that fired people for doing spots involving choking in the years following.
What does “extremely disappointed” consist of? Did you walk around your house throwing a fit, because some podcasters, didnt get upset over a comedy spot? Were walls punched? Dishes thrown?
I wasn’t aware that Shad was held underwater in a pool, in a stadium. In the middle of a match.
Yes, it was a tragedy. But, the only similarity is water. Matt wasn’t thrown into the ocean, and dragged away by the current.
I dont know, I highly doubt AEW writers/agents/wrestlers were trying to spoof the death of Shad. If they did a spot on the beach where a wrestler got pulled in and “drowned”, then I would 100% get the outrage. This was not that.
I feel the same way about the WWE/Benoit stuff. It would be one thing if they did a story-line where a wrestler committed an awful act, then attempted to hang himself with a lat pulldown cable, but to do what they did 13 years later, IMO is not a big deal.
If you look for it, you can make many spots in wrestling appear to have mirrored a tragedy in real life.
And look, it’s totally fair to say you found it uncomfortable in your mind, because it reminded you of the news. I totally respect that. But saying that there was any intent to trigger people to remind them of Shad, or that there was bad decision making to allow the spot to happen - or people aren’t being critical enough of the spot… I find that silly.
I think I should have chosen my words this morning a little more carefully. After reading some of the replies and calming down a little, I do think I overreacted just a bit. I don’t believe that AEW was trying to specifically call up the memory of Shad Gaspard and apologize if my wording was interpreted that way. I mean plenty of his former co-workers and friends are in AEW and if they didn’t notice or care enough to change the spot, then I guess I have no right to be that upset about it. I do think it was incredibly poorly timed and could have saved them some long-term complaints and issues if it was cut altogether. I found it deeply unsettling to watch, but I can also accept that others may have not interpreted it the same way.
I didn’t watch Double or Nothing so didn’t see the scene being referred to but having heard about it I didn’t care one way or another. I do think there is a complete double standard though when it comes to AEW with them not being criticised for things that the WWE would (rightly or wrongly) criticised for. Mike Tyson, convicted rapist, anyone?
In regards to your last line, here is why I think that is. For the record, I’m not saying I feel this way, this is my interpretation of what I read.
I think there has been a fan narrative that has been created where WWE is evil, while AEW is this squeaky clean progressive company that can do no wrong. So what these fans do, is they try to jump down WWE’s throats at the smallest thing, while they ignore things that may be similar in AEW. To counter this, the fans who don’t like AEW and prefer WWE will point try to look for and point out hypocrisy’s. Just to give one example of this, I have read plenty of fan criticism regarding the McMahon’s donating to the Trump campaign, while these same fans seem to completely ignore the fact that the Khan family also donated I believe 1 million to it.
Point being, I think that some fans are attempting to point out that there is a major hypocrisy in AEW becasue of things like this, and are using the fact that they are bringing in a convicted rapist as “proof”.
My counter to that would be that this idea that AEW is squeaky clean is more of a fan narrative then it is a reality. This isnt a shot at AEW at all, my point is that the “hypocisity” that is being pointed out is more so based on fan comments then comments from the actual company.
There is also the argument (not saying I agree or disagree) that Tyson committed a crime and paid is debt to society, but I really don’t feel like going down that road.
I feel the need to clarify that I am an adult and thus can criticise either company without it being because I’m in love with one. I think both of what they churn out is an awful presentation of pro-wrestling (and that is without including whatever the f@@k you want to call the scenes that are not wrestling matches) with AEW’s presentation being marginally better until the last month or so where they seem to have decided to go WCW Monday Nitro 1998 onwards and present their version of WWE rather than the sports based product they claimed they were going to be.
Also, they are the bigger hypocrites because they have promoted an image of being a morally superior promotion whereas, charity propaganda aside, WWE don’t claim to be morally anything. In fact, they seem to relish giving everyone the finger and doing the opposite of what most reasonable people would do.
A clarification of the clarification. It wasn’t specifically aimed at you @kliq. It was a general commentary on the Church of Scientology levels of devotion to the AEW religion (actually, they are probably jealous of the level of devotion that AEW receives from their fans) that leaves the followers unable or unwilling to acknowledge or accept that not everyone criticises them just because it is AEW.
It’s not the 80’s anymore man. Its time to start facing the fact, that “sports entertainment” is not just some catchy slogan. These shows are no different than an episode of Days of Our Lives or Young & The Restless.
Then why bother commenting on it? For something you dont like, you seem to know a hell of a lot that is going on.
I dont get it. I dislike Golf & Nascar. I think they fucking suck personally. I dont watch anything or listen to anything, having to do with those sports. I have no clue what is going on with them, besides major events(such as the stuff with Brady & Manning this past weekend) and because I dont like them or know whats going on, I dont constantly comment on them.
To be fair, wrestling is such a weird world. A person may love a good old school wresting match (think Bryan vs Gulak from last week), but hate the cinematic style (think Taker vs AJ). Since these promotions tend to book matches ranging from both sides of the spectrum, I can see why a fan who hates some of the new presentation may still watch.
Myself for example, I do enjoy old school wrestling, and I enjoy the cinematic stuff to a degree. I do think some stuff is just dumb (sorry, but I cant get into a man flipping guys with his penis), but I really liked Taker vs AJ (outside of a few spots that I think went to far). Bray vs Cena was very entertaining, but I’d prefer stuff like that not t happen, I felt like I was watching a dream sequence. I havent watched the AEW PPV yet, but I’m very curious to see what they do.
Anyways, I’m going off topic. I get what you are saying, but my point is if a fan hates Nascar, its easy as they dont watch. A fan can love certain aspects of wrestling, but also hate certain aspects which is really not a thing in other sports. I’m sure many fans love a good WWE match, but hate the porn level acting in between matches, doesn’t mean they shouldn’t watch.