An Opinion of yours about Wrestling that 75%+ of the board wouldn't share


#101

Baszler is two and a half years ahead of Rousey to be fair.

I don’t disagree with your opinion on the match except that I think Rousey, for where she’s at training wise, looked phenomenal and it’s the booking and Steph being out of position multiple times that worked against Ronda shining like she should’ve.


#102

Jim Cornette actually said the Rousey match was great and possibly the greatest debut match ever.

And he hates everything.


#103

He also rebooked the Bryan/McMahon vs. Owens/Zayn match so that it was way better and pointed out a bunch of the issues I had with Ciampa/Gargano.

I’m not gonna argue that Rousey didn’t look phenomenal considering how long she’s been training, but there’s no situation in this world where Stephanie McMahon should ever be able to block that armbar and if she’s ever lucky enough to pull that off, she should never have the strength required to hold off on it getting locked in fully long enough to be rescued by Trippers. They sacrificed the armbar the show that Ronda could work a longer match than people expected, when there’s ways to have that same match and still make the armbar look like an instatap.


#104

I did enjoy the match overall. The goal was to showcase the young rook and she came out with a mission accomplished. I was chuckling at the time Steph was clasping her hands as with each passing second she was burying someone else in the UFC Women’s Bantamweight Division. I agree with Wai there as some slack can be cut on a ‘wrestling’ armbar as opposed to a MMA armbar. They did go over the edge when Steph went belly down and squirmed out of the predicament. I was thinking ‘wow, Steph is already up to purple belt just in this match.’

I thought Ronda’s punching looked twice as good worked as it did in MMA for real and that would normally sound totally ironic, but a co-worker of mine said it’s probably way easier to throw when you know there’s not going to be any return fire. Good point.

I thought the tap at the end was fairly quick and thinking about it that’s the way I would go as far as booking her ‘wrestling’ armbar. I’d make the ‘struggle’ part in breaking the clasping hands. Good way to build some crowd tension with that dynamic and then have a quick tap once (if) she gets the hands apart into the move.


#105

Invader 1 was pushed so much he snapped by thar bully Brody.


#106

During the “Review-An-Impact” years (2011-2016), Impact was consistently a more enjoyable TV show than Raw. :100:

:sunglasses:


#107

you only got my like for the schitts creek gif


#108

Not sure I can agree with that Nate. If I’m keeping it 100…

Aces and Eights?

Immortal?

Jeff Hardy’s purple title belt?

Jeff Hardy?

The Revolution?

X Division matches all made three ways with ref cam added?

Magnus’ title reign being ended just as it was getting going?

I had more fun listening to you and Brian try to make sense of it :grinning: I’m not an TNA hater either (loved it 2004 - 2006, watched until 2010 and getting back into it 2018)


#109

I am in favor of bringing more squash matches back to TV.


#110

Jeff Hardy being listed twice here popped me


#111

It could have been more… remember that strange week when the viewers could hear Jeff’s inner monologues?


#112

There was PLENTY bad to be sure, but it was still more interesting/enjoyable, IMO than most of what happened on Raw during that time period. :100:


#113

To be fair, at least I can remember what happened on Impact. Bar the CM Punk/Cena build up for Money In The Bank 2011, I remember very little of what happened on RAW 2011 - 2016. I’m not a regular viewer by any stretch, but the quality and length of RAW is the reason for that!


#114

Sorry PodFather - the Punk storyline, and then the Shield and the rise of Bryan alone squash your argument.


#115

All great angles, but IMO they ultimately end up being very cool islands amongst the vast sea of 200+ hours of Raw during that time period. Even at it’s Destination America worst, Impact was only 2 hours of suffering. Plus I’d put the Broken Universe (and maybe even the MVP/BDC/MLK) stuff up there against pretty much anything Raw had to offer besides Bryan & Punk. But as the great philosopher Chappelle once said, “Some people like their cucumbers better pickled”, my friend! :100:

:sunglasses:


#116

I’m :100:% on the Satellite of Nate here:

Top to bottom I enjoyed TNA then. Can’t say I saw too many RAWs, but I was following along what was happening thanks to the Golden Postcasters, John and Wai.

Let’s take a look at current WWE personnel that were in TNA during that time (2011-2016):

Bobby Lashley
Jeff Hardy
Matt Hardy
Luke Gallows
Rhyno
Samoa Joe
Brian Kendrick
Mark Andrews
TJP
Mickie James
Drake Maverick
Kurt Angle
AJ Styles
Bobby Roode
Mike Kanellis
Maria Kanellis
Nigel McGuinness
Drew McIntyre
EC3
Eric Young
Zelina Vega

(also Hawkins, Dorado, Ciampa, LaRae, and Cross made some appearances on TNA during that time, and let’s not forget WWE Ambassador Sting as well as recent WWE Hall of Fame Inductees the Dudley Boys)

heck maybe WWE enjoyed that TNA period more as well :wink:

that’s the purpose of this thread though, maybe @PodFatherSOH and yours truly are out on our own here.


#117

I’d agree with the ‘islands’ point…too few promising storylines (that went nowhere) in a sea of mediocrity for RAW. The ‘Pipebomb’ for example…that ended with a HHH Vs Nash Ladder match😭

I’d forgot about The Shield though - I loved their battles with the Wyatt Family, Bryan, Kane and Orton etc.

In fact one of my ‘hot takes’ would be that the original Shield run was the best period of time for Rollins, Ambrose and Reigns. I can’t say I’ve enjoyed them much since, bar Ambrose’s SmackDown Title run.

Another ‘hot take’ too - I’m more interested in watching Impact than RAW at the moment. It’s shorter, has a different feel in terms of production and some really good talent. Dare I say it, I reckon Impact is a decent announcer and some starpower away from being a pretty good show…


#118

See, I’m fine with some slack being given… but for a debut match of someone you know that they wanna position as a top draw for the forseeable future? That armbar is famous. It’s what got Ronda over in MMA. It’s how she won and was an instatap in the Octagon. There’s a built in story of the women’s division needing to work out how to block it. A story of how Ronda may not be the best wrestler in the division, how she may not be the biggest, the strongest or the toughest, but when she gets that armbar, there’s no defence for it and she’s taking your arm home with her. Now that story doesn’t exist. Steph worked it out on first try and all the women in the division need to do is study that tape. It’s idiotic booking.

The second Ronda went for the armbar Steph should’ve tapped. You could’ve had Trips bump the ref to stop the finish, but Steph had to tap and then sell the arm for the rest of the match. The match continues and then when Ronda faces off with Triple H she gets him in the armbar and he taps too… but the ref can’t call the finish because it has to be woman vs. woman or man vs. man. Now Trips and Steph are working with only one arm each and you head towards the finish. The battle isn’t getting the armbar on. The battle is getting the finish because the Authority Couple keep cheating or using the rules to their advantage. It’s essentially the same match but you establish Ronda’s finisher as something to be truly reckoned with and she looks even better coming out of it.

The ONLY reason that wasn’t the finish was because Hunter and Steph were too busy protecting themselves to be willing to really get Ronda over to the level she should be. That is not, as they say, best for business.


#119

Enjoy your stuff @JT_Grizzle

Let me take a stab at something here. Maybe it won’t hold water in the end.

I didn’t bring any data to the table here. (hold on, that’s a good catchphrase, let me jot that down into a notebook)

Let’s examine 3 time frames and compare them among fighters:

  • Time it takes for a tap once the opponents’ arm is free.
  • Time that it takes to ‘free an arm’ after getting into armbar postioning.
  • Time it takes to get to that ‘armbar position’.

I’m going to go out on a limb and say Ronda is not any quicker than other fighters in those first two categories (she certainly ‘could’ be, like I said I didn’t bring any data here). I saw Meisha squirm around in both of those first two categories for quite a while armbarickly speaking.

Hold on, I’m getting a call from Gallows and Anderson …
G n A: (ooooh, that would be a good team name) NERDS!! NERDS!!
Cobra: Listen GnA, you guys can’t even get into the Balor Club and they include everyone!

That third category, however, Ronda is the quickest, best ever, super fast, numero uno of all time. Her matches were super short because she was able to go from standing (meaning the position fighters are in at the start of the contest) to that ‘armbar position’ in ridiculously fast time even when her opponent knew that it was coming and there wasn’t much else Ronda was offering to ‘distract’ from that mission.

My ‘conclusion’ (if that data is correct) is instant taps, and instantly transitioning to the armbar might not be what Ronda is the best at. Getting to that position is what she’s the best at.

All that being said, I would rather there being some struggle in some of these categories (just thought the belly down by Steph was too much) as Ronda’s working to be a complete wrestler not just some Goldbergish squasher.

Your idea(s) is certainly a way to go (and maybe the way). We’ve come to expect a certain McMahonamaina aspect to all this so they’re gonna get some stuff in as well (protecting themselves). I actually think HHH does not deserve the reputation he has overall on this as no one (besides me) is ever pointing out that he has the most Mania losses at 15. (source I look at actually says 13, I guessed 15)

GnA: I’ve got two words for ya: NERDS! NERDS!
Cobra: Well that word is already on my Mensa membership. I’m a jock also. :100::wink:


#120

Hmmm…I saw that HHH’s WM win-loss record is 9-12, but I don’t buy that it makes him underserving of his reputation as someone who doesn’t put people over. Look at the losses…

WM12 - basically a political loss to Warrior. This happened because it was early in HHH’s career…a year or two later and this job doesn’t happen.

WM15 - I didn’t even remember him losing to Kane at WM, don’t think it made much difference to either man’s career.

WM17 - first loss to Taker. No harm to HHH’s position in losing to the bigger star.

WM20 - the triple threat. A job to Benoit didn’t really effect HHH as 1)it was a transitional reign for a guy who was never going to upend him on the card and 2) he had the belt back six months later

WM21 - his loss to Batista was actually HHH putting someone over properly but as Cornette summarised at the time, Batista was older and more injury prone than HHH so wasn’t going to take HHH’s spot long term.

WM22 - a loss to John Cena, but I’m not sure how much this helped Cena. Is this the WM where HHH said to Cena in the press conference “You’re not a very good wrestler” and Cena nodded?

WM24 - a triple threat loss involving Orton and Cena. Both Cena and Orton were top guys already.

WM27 + 28 - two losses to 'Taker. Again, two losses to the biggest star in the company as part of the streak doesn’t really hurt HHH.

WM30 - his loss to Bryan helped DB but remember 1) it wasn’t the original plan and 2) it should have happened earlier. WWE should never ended up rushing the Daniel Bryan run at WM.

WM32 - HHH lost to Reigns in what I call a ‘HHH job’. Basically, the face gets beat down for months on ends building to an ‘epic’ (read: overlong) match where HHH finally loses…the problem is, the outcome is so obvious that it doesn’t help the winner…

WM33 - take the above and replace Reigns with Rollins :grinning:

Sorry to ramble, but HHH doesn’t and never has elevated people unless they’re his mates (Orton, Sheamus) or are short term solutions (Batista, Benoit). I like NXT so appreciate his work there, but I roll my eyes when I see he’s wrestling.

There is a difference between losing and making a star of someone. Compare any of HHH’s above matches to Hart Vs Piper at WM8 for example…

Apologies again - not sure if it’s a hot take or 15 years of pent up anger coming out…if he’d just put RVD, Jericho and Booker over in 02/03…:angry: