Avenger's OutPOST - An MCU Thread (SPOILERS!)


#21

Marvelous execution for a PAT.


#22

I really enjoy all the MCU related shows too. The Netflix series have for the most part been really good. I even thought Iron Fist was saved by Jessica Henwicks performance of Collen Wing’s and the focus on Rosario Dawson who is terrific as Claire. And even though I did feel like Defenders underwhelmed a little, the second season of Jessica Jones convinced me that the individual series will continue to be good.

Agents of Shield is underrated IMO as a Marvel show. It started off slow but ever since SHIELD was torn apart after Winter Soldier in season 1 the show has been a roller coaster with a lot of character growth, good relationships I’m actually invested in, great performances. They made the most out of their little corner of the MCU as its obvious a lot of the storylines they would like to tell they are not allowed too because they have been reserved for future movies.

I don’t have a problem that the shows and movies are not even more connected. It would probably make it even more difficult to tell great stories and is similar to the comic book model where they just say “screw it” at some point and let wolverine be in the x-men, avengers, and solo comic books at the same time. There just has to be an acceptance from the audience that the Defenders don’t need to be there when downtown NY gets invaded.


#23

I REALLY enjoyed Homecoming. I always thought Tobey-Mac was a good Peter & an OK Spidey (I thought the opposite for Garfield), but Tom Holland is the best of both worlds. The kid plays a convincing teenager, a PERFECT Spidey, and he can handle the dramatic scenes, to boot. His performance in “Infinity War” was at times both heartwarming & heartbreaking.

You’re not too far off with that take. I think one of the more underrated parts of the “Marvel Method” is their near pitch-perfect casting. Even actors that replaced original actors (Ruffalo for Ed Norton, Cheadle for Terrence Howard, whoever replaced Weaving in “Infinity War”) fit so well into the films. So even a film like IM2 that is average or worse on the page is elevated past what it probably should be.

I think the Star Wars Universe gets credit for the sheer scope of the books & games & TV shows (although I’m not even sure what’s “cannon” anymore)…But even then, I think what Marvel’s done has surpassed that. I do wish there were a little bit more integration with the Netflix shows, but i get the difficulty of trying to navigate the logistics between the TV & film sides of the company.

Nice call with the Kevin Smith/VA universe, I’ve always liked Brother Smitty! :100:

:sunglasses:


#24

I would much prefer there be a little more back and forth between the shows and the films to be quite honest. The first season of Agents of SHIELD had a bit of them cleaning up after the big name heroes and of course a few choice cameos from Sam Jackson, and Daredevil got very LOST with continued references to “the incident” that unless you were really paying attention you could be forgiven for not realising that they were talking about the Chitauri attack from the first Avengers film… but I feel like they really are missing a trick with bring the SHIELD crew in for little bit parts in the movies - why have a random SHIELD agent when you could have Daisy or Mack show up to brief Iron Man or whatever?

Other than that I think that the TV division, much like the film division, is pretty great at pulling shit out of the bag; even Iron Fist, Defenders and Inhumans had their moments and potential for stories going forward. I’m kinda sad that Inhumans got cancelled after being shafted so hard by having it’s premiere date locked in before they’d even really had a chance to set anything else up. I think the whole Inhumans thing was really Marvel Studios only major mistake from a business perspective so far - from it being a movie, to it being something for AoS to mine from, to being it’s own show that was all of a sudden an IMAX release with almost no real budget and no writers room or cast to speak of that had to be pulled together in a matter of weeks. It was doomed from the minute the IMAX release was agreed to.

You talked about it with Tom Holland as well - Tobey MacGuire and Andrew Garfield were good in their own ways, but Holland embodies that role. Norton was decent at times but I can’t imagine the MCU without RuffaHulk now. For the longest time I preferred Terrance Howard to Don Cheadle and I couldn’t work out why, it hit me recently that Howard got all the good stuff for Rhodey and Cheadle got to arrive, steal the Iron Man tech and then play what is basically a bit-part in the MCU; he turned heel (but not really, more like tweener) and dropped down the card, it’s actually a waste of the talent of Don Cheadle and that’s the reason I’m not as big a fan of Cheadle’s Rhodes.

As for the Star Wars canon, it’s been a while since I read up on it, but as I remember it - anything released after Disney bought Lucasfilm is canon; so any comics, games, books, TV shows, and (of course) the movies. Beforehand the only things that were kept were the original trilogy, the prequels, the Clone Wars animated movie and it’s subsequent TV series. So basically, every other book, comic, game or type of media that was released before The Force Awakens (pretty much) is no longer applicable to the current version of the universe, unless Disney decides to state it is in the future. I get the feeling they are absolutely using all of that former canonical material to mine for stories for future movies and TV shows because why wouldn’t you?


#25

I just watched Infinity War for the 3rd time today, it gets better to me, every time I watch it. Also, the more I watch, the more Thor becomes my favorite. They’re definitely going in the right direction with him since Ragnarok and I hope he doesnt get killed off in Avengers 4. IMO he should be the new leader of the Avengers.


#26

So, as a Brit I would like to request an embargo on Ant-Man & The Wasp spoilers in the POSTWrestling podcasts which have hosts who see the movie when it’s released everywhere else a month before we get it, because apparently we are so obsessed with football the studio thinks NO ONE will go and see it while the World Cup is happening.

We get it August 3rd instead of during July - which is ridiculous! Fuck the World Cup, the MCU is way more important! :rofl:

Please, @johnpollock @wai0937 @PodFatherSOH @TheBrayD @upNXT and anyone else that I don’t know the username of, either keep it to non-spoiler talk or position you’re spoiler filled opinions/reviews at the end of the podcast when you do talk about it because there’s a segment of us (and sure we are probably a small segment) that won’t have any ability to see that film at all but will still want to listen to the podcasts anyway.

Us Brit’s really will appreciate it if that could be done. :slightly_smiling_face:


#27

I grew up in the UK and was so surprised when I moved to the US as a kid and found out movies came out a whole year sooner in the USA. I never understood why. It’s gotten a lot better since then but I think you’ve made a fair request. John and Wai are normally really good with spoiler tags or moving spoiler conversations to the end of shows too.

Some news we have not discussed in this thread is the potential Disney/Fox merger returning the rights to the X-Men and Fantastic Four back to Marvel. Do you want Marvel to introduce mutants and the Fantastic Four to the MCU?


#28

I hardly see stuff when it first comes out cause my wife doesnt like big crowds, i always listen to the spoilers, but I am an exception to the rule, they really dont spoil it for me


#29

Mutants no, Fantastic Four yes. With the Fantastic Four as the first real Marvel mega team of heroes, it would be neat to see them join the MCU. With X-Men, they already have such a vast universe to begin with, I would prefer they it separate.


#30

Don’t quote me on this because I listen to a ton of podcasts and know I heard this on one but can’t be sure which or what the source was, so it could be bullshit, but even if the Disney/Fox merger-buyout-whatever doesn’t go through and ComCast or whoever else buys Fox instead, the rights to the Marvel properties go back to Marvel (and thus Marvel Studios) due to the language in the original deals.

That all said, with Phase 4 coming ever closer and Phase 3 looking likely to end a couple of characters stories for good, I think it makes sense to use the next phase to begin peppering in those characters.

Is there anything more fitting than using Phase 4 of the MCU to introduce the Fantastic Four to that world?

I think they’d be daft to attempt to integrate the current X-Verse into the MCU - the timeline is an abomination - but I definitely want to see mutants start popping up; maybe do a reverse House of M style storyline arc where, instead of killing a massive amount of mutants, Scarlet Witch actually causes them somehow? Have a few outliers who can be put into stories here and there as natural mutations (Professor X, Magneto, etc… just so they are able to be older) throughout history but the trigger for their introduction to the MCU is Wanda managing to cause a mass mutation… or not, y’know? Just spitballin’. :rofl:

I do think though, that they would also be daft to not bring Ryan Reynolds Deadpool into the MCU. He is perfect and his films lift easily out of the X-Verse and place into the MCU without any problems large enough to cause an issue. He can be the token R-Rated “hero” in the universe to sate the bloodthirsty fans that insist Disney ruins everything (Disney make everything better people, stop whining) and, I’ve said this a million times all over the internet and in actual real life when I bother going outside with real people, but can you imagine - it’s the big Avengers team-up, they give it a 12A rating so they can use one f-bomb the whole movie and Wade keeps referencing it, saying how he’s saving it for the right moment, and then right when they earn it, Deadpool starts the line and someone else (RuffaHulk, Black Widow, Ant-Man, whoever…) says “Fuck!” and Wade just loses it because it was his one moment and it got taken away from him - if it’s a bad guy he can even kill them for it!

I just love the idea of Deadpool toning down his language and behaviour in a team-up movie for the kids in the audience, turning the camera away while he’s slicing and dicing bad guys, apologising to parents in the audience and letting the kids know his solo films aren’t appropriate for them yet but when their old enough their gonna love them, telling Spidey he’s not allowed to watch when he’s fighting, shit like that.

Deadpool in the MCU would be fucking glorious and you all know it. :grin:


#31

I could easily see the Fantastic 4 being integrated into the next phase of MCU flicks (particularly since most of the groundwork for their cosmic adventures has been laid out already). I think maybe a group younger than the old Alba-led F4, but older than the Fan4stic crew could work.

As far as the X-Men go, as mmuch as I’d love a Hugh Jackman cameo…I wouldn’t want anything with them in the MCU until Phase 5 (I think that’s a sufficient amount of time for the current Fox X-Men to run their course).

I think Deadpool could work IF used properly. I think a team-up movie (ala Thor: Ragnarok) might be the best spot to bring him in. Having him interact w/a Thor or a Bruce Banner or Ant-Man could make for an interesting film.

:100:


#32

The rights to the Fantastic 4 would be the biggest get for Marvel right now I think, and not just because of the Fantastic 4 themselves.

After the next Inifinity War movie, the Thanos arc will have run its course and that makes you wonder where they will possibly go for the next Avengers movie. With the rights to Galactus and Doctor Doom, you have two A tier villains who can be used in the next couple of years.

And tbh I just really want to see Doom done right. Man, he has had some rough outings.


#33

The general consensus is that it’s unknown (to the public) what exactly would happen to the rights to Marvel’s characters if comcast ended up buying out fox studios. The rights may or may not go back to Marvel.

You would think that since Comcast has reportedly made a huge offer for Fox Studios that they believe they have a good shot of retaining the Marvel rights and any other material currently under Fox. And if the licensing deal isn’t crystal clear that about the rights that Comcast would at least go to court to try to retain them and prevent Marvel Studios from doing anything with them for years which would be a shame for both the movies and the comics.

Those of us that also read the comics have seen the Fantastic Four and X-Men essentially sidelined to focus on Avengers and Defenders related comics for future movies/tv shows. It would be nice to see the whole Marvel family back together.


#34

Speaking of the comics…

As someone who has only a very limited knowledge and collection in that area I’ve been wondering for a long time whether anyone could point me in the direction of specific runs in the comics that are obvious influences on the movies they’ve made?

I’ve never found anything definitive online (although I’ve not looked for a while) and while some stuff is obvious - the Extremis run for Iron Man 3, Civil War for Civil War, the Infinity Gauntlet/War for Avengers 3 and 4 - other stuff is less so. There’s also the high likelihood that most of the films and TV shows are actually pulling from more than one run of books and mashing some things together to make it all fit, but this kinda shit is interesting to me and I’ve been wanting to find a way into comics for a while and this seems like a good route to go; it’ll help me find artists, writers and characters I like and work out other books to pick and choose from.

Anyone got any suggestions?


#35

There are minor references to different runs in every movie. I mentioned in my civil war feedback that the MCU Civil War went in a complete different way than the book.

Mark Millars The Ultimates run basically framed the first Avengers movie. Winter soldier is based on the comic of the same name. Thor Ragnorak has elements of Planet Hulk from the hulk book. Black Panther apparently draws from Christopher Priest’s run on the comic. Spider-man Homecoming has some nods to the Miles Morales spider-man book.

If you’re a fan of the Netflix shows theyvate closer to the books imh. Id read Alias for Jessica Jones. Brian Bendis’ Daredevil run and Frank Millers Born Again for the next DD season.

This is a start. I wish more people got into comics because of media. Not sure if that works but its a start.


#36

Idem what faultyrob said is what they do, they mash storylines together. It’s kinda smart it keeps it a bit fresh but also it had to do with rights to certain characters. I got the same hope for people to pick op some more comics because of all the movies Faultyrob… but i am seeing more and more people asking about… so i have high hopes.

JT hope this helps a bit;

A few more are:

  • Thanos quest & Infinity where kinda used as line voor Infinity war, with a mesh up gaunlet, war and crusade. Johnathan hickman and Jim starlin are named as the writers they used a lot.
  • The guardians team as used in the movie is kinda based on the guardians from the: Annihilation story line. And now its the other way around they base the books on the movie characters.
  • Dr strange is kinda based on the orginal story lines for the beginning of the movie strange stales and Doctor strange master of the mystic arts. ( the part where he goes soul searching was kinda the base for batman begins aswell…) . Some is based on The oath. the rest is a mesh up with ditko art.
  • For antman it kinda loans form the comics done by Michelinie and Bryne, where scott Lang takes over the mantel. I think hank Pym took up the mantel of yellowjacket in that storyline aswell.
  • And captain marvel will probably be Kree-Skrull War based they will probably skip Ms. Marvel origins and go for the new origins (rewritten one) when marvel now happened so captain marvel #1 and base her on the character as used in civil war 2.
  • Homecoming spiderman is based on the Ultimate storylines a bit more modern not a direct storyline but the ultimate rond from bendis is how tom holland plays spidey.
  • The end of ragnarok ( the ragnarok comics is not really like the movie but still) is based on straczynki’s run of thor which is a cool easter egg they get on a spaceship as well after asgard is gone.
  • Iron man 2 was i think Demon in a bottle where justin hammer is introduced.

and for the future i think we will see a bit of:

Secret Wars / secret invasion;
Avengers Forever (Kang could be coming);
The Kang dynasty;
Avengers disassembled ( kinda used after civil war ) -> New avengers
House of M Or A vs X when the fox deal is done;
Eternals;


#37

Captain America: Winter Soldier (my fav MCU movie) and Agents of Shield are heavily influenced by Jonathan Hickman’s and Brian Michael Bendis amazing Secret Warriors book. https://www.amazon.com/Secret-Warriors-Omnibus-Michael-Bendis/dp/0785163336

This book introduced the idea that Shield had been infiltrated by Hydra from early on and the fall out when Shield comes apart. It’s also the last great Nick Fury story and shows off why he’s such a bad ass character and introduces AoS characters like Quake.


#38

Here is an update on Disney buying Fox: Bloomberg - Disney Sweetens Offer to $71B.

$71 Billion is an insane amount of money…


#39

Thanks to everyone with their comic book recommendations. I have no idea when I’ll get around to checking them out but I’ve made a list of them and I’m looking forward to getting hold of a few sooner rather than later. I’ve already read Civil War, Planet Hulk and at least a little bit of Millar’s Ultimates run and I enjoyed all of those previously.

I’m assuming @PodFatherSOH has been watching Luke Cage, as I’m guessing Always Forward will be covering the season soon, I binged it over the weekend and while there were parts that I wasn’t a huge fan of I’m honestly having a small inner war about whether I actually prefer it to the first seasson. No matter which way I’m leaning though, both seasons are great television.

I’m yet to finish the last season of Agents of SHIELD or start Cloak & Dagger though.


#40

Are we going to finally have X men part of MCU Movies then ?