Dissapointing behavior at last night's Raw (11/11)

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I wanted to share this post from Reddit that highlights an issue with racists feeling emboldened to act out at last night’s show. I’ve included a link at the bottom so you can see the post and replies for yourself. SPOILERS FOR NEXT MONDAYS SHOW AHEAD BEWARE!

(Raw Spoilers) Tag Team Spoilers+Live Event Etiquette

Hey Everyone!

Some minor spoilers for next weeks RAW. There is a mixed tag team match with LWO, Zelina and Rey vs American Made, Chad and Ivy. The match is actually really fun, and Gable did an amazing job being a heel and feeding into the crowd. Great moment at the end with Gable and the Creed Brothers, lots of good stuff.

I would just like to say though. There was a gentleman in the crowd spewing just hate and garbage towards Rey and Zelina, and it was just terrible to see and hear. I’m sorry, but you do not yell at a legend like Rey Mysterio, that “he can’t wait to see him get deported back.” And “I didn’t come here to see Mexicans.” It was typical Political garbage, and it was so nice to see everyone around stand up to the hate and get him kicked out.

So please, I know the landscape is changing here, but please don’t bring that hate to a show, especially being so disrespectful to a Legend like Rey, who has overcome so much adversity and has brought so much joy and passion to fans for 30 years. I know wrestling fans can be terrible, but I also know we can be some of the greatest and most accepting fans ever. Good Vibes Please.

ANOTHER POSTER CHIMES IN:

I was at last night’s show, too, and there was a guy in my section who was yelling at EVERY non-American wrestler “go back where you came from!” Even Dakota Kai and the rest of damage ctrl. Finally myself and one of the dads behind me told him to shut up, but I was just thinking, is this really happening? Is this real life? I know things are crazy right now in this country but to see it that loud in public blew my mind. Which sucks because it was otherwise a really great show.

https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/s/hNUrsL7kAS

Besides calling this behavior out as we see it. What else can we do as wrestling fans to proactively discourage people like this from coming to the shows and/or acting out?

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WWE and TKO are actively in bed with Trump and his party.

Why are we surprised when people feel emboldened to act out on a manner they believe their political leader would support, publicly, given the outcome of the election?

When TKO is so openly courting MAGA supporters and influencers, the people who that party attracts is going to feel very open and welcome to behave a certain way at events.

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The biggest factor is to call it out. Every. Single. Time. Loudly. Not on a keyboard. To their faces.

And secondly, don’t support places and companies that welcome people who share this behavior.

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This is extremely unfortunate but it’s a reality because Trump won. America is a country elected Somebody who wants to deport a bunch of people back to their own country. That’s the fabric of the country right now and that’s who they want in power. So it’s going to give these people more and more of a voice and WWE is actively in bed with Trump. it was sort of like saying, if you had an extremely left-wing leader, you could be much more open in your comments for instance, the other way. Right now everybody needs to understand that racist rhetoric will be on the rise and largely more tolerated because of who the leader is.

You just have to keep pointing it out and weather the next four years.

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I don’t disagree with you and it’s certainly easier being Canadian but the truth is most companies are in bed with Trump, including UFC and WWE. You have to kind of accept that reality if you’re gonna be a fan and understand that for the next four years, the racist kind of own this country and people like Dana and Vince can do whatever they want.

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I’m as disgusted by Trumps actions and influence as anyone. But sometimes all the ills in the world are not all his fault.

Unfortunately saying racist/sexist/degrading/dumbass things at a wrestling show is hardly something new. If anything crowds have gotten much much better over the last 15 years that now this kind of behavior “stands out” in a crowd whereas prior to the mid 2000’s there was a lot more of this.

Zelina Vega has talked about how she has been harassed her whole career for one reason or another. Trump winning the election last week didn’t all of a sudden make this behavior more acceptable. It has never been acceptable. But people have always done it anyway because they think they can act a fool and be a part of the show.

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Sounds like one guy who may be mentally ill started spouting off violent/hateful rhetoric and was quickly shut down by everyone around him. The trash took itself out. Even the WWE Universe— fans of a company that is in bed with Trump— were able to identify the difference between political discourse and hatemongering, and they refused to stand for it. Bravo.

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Yes, of course you are right. I think I perhaps worded it wrong. I’m not blaming Trump for their suddenly being more racists in the world.

There are two types of people – this guy could well have been a bigot who would’ve had these views no matter who was in charge. However, there is an other group of people that have these views who would never have dreamt of saying them in public, but now that They have a leader in charge who they think agrees with them, they feel more empowered to say these things. Again, it doesn’t sound like he fits into this category, but I’ve seen firsthand when Trump was first elected. That people that would’ve kept these views to themselves suddenly feel they can say them more liberally.

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I think you make a really important point here.

In most cases that I read about this behavior, there were fans around that called it out.

I know wrestling fans in general are moving towards being more accepting and tolerant, it’s still always stunning to me when anyone thinks this is ok. I’m glad it’s getting called out, but the fact that it’s happening absolutely sucks.

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I see some people are putting blame on WWE, I’m sorry but that’s a bit silly. At the end of the day, most billionaires are aligned with trump and the republican party. The khan family has donated to trump, the McMahons have donated (Linda was in his cabinet), Dana white is a vocal supporter, nfl owners have donated etc. etc etc. The only person I know who is openly against them is Ari Manual who is a very vocal democratic supporter.

Long story short, to not be a fan of a league or wrestling company that has someone connected to a political party IMO is tricky because if you try to play that game you are likely going to end up looking like a hypocrite by playing mental
Gymnastics to justify being a fan of one team over another or one promotion over another.

As far as the behaviour goes, like I said earlier people need to report this to security. Calling it out is a good idea on paper, at the same time I don’t want to see a wrestling fan with a good heart get punched in the face either. Be smart, report this shit.

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You’re so funny. Everytime this topic comes up, you really want to hold onto the idea that Shahid Khan donating to Trump’s election a decade ago, is anything comparable to the incestuous relationship between modern day WWE / TKO and Trump. It’s not the same thing.

It’s also not hard to see how quickly Khan’s opinion on Trump changed:

I don’t know what AEW’s politics are, because they’re not putting it on their programming. (I mean, the last we heard was Tony was a communist who was trying to silence Jake Hager being MAGA! Haha). But TKO as an organization has helped prop up Trump’s entire re-election. Giving him grand entrances on UFC PPVs, Joe Rogan and Dana endorsing him. Linda McMahon being a part of his transition team. Etc.

Stop.

I can enjoy watching AEW and countless other promotions and know to the best for my knowledge I’m not supporting MAGA or Saudi Sports washing.

Whereas at this point, there is no denying TKO’s stance.

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You do this every time. Where did I say the McMahon connection to Trump is the exact same as the Khans connection to trump?

What I said is they all have connections to trump which they do.

I even went out of my way to mention Linda was in the cabinet specially because i didn’t want to get you going, that was an awknowlegment that the McMahons have a deeper connection. Clearly you felt a need to play Khan PR anyways.

The mental gymnastics and strawmaning is exhausting. Please stop.

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Yes, but where do you draw the line? Do you fast forward through every Chris Jericho match knowing that his wife attended the January attack on Parliament Hill? They both literally are stop the steal morons.

Like at some point, we all end up watching or supporting something for which our political beliefs do not align. I don’t know whether watching a Chris Jericho match is any different than watching WWE to be honest.

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In reference to your link, Khan did call trump a “Divider” in 2017, then in 2019 backed trump again on economic policy. Like I said in the political thread, not every trump supporter is a racist, many back him because of money and Shad Khan is one of them, and yes he clearly doesn’t agree with Trumps’ social stances.

Ari Emanuel is a Democrat, does that mean WWE is is a Democratic company and AEW is a republican company? Of course not. Both companies along with the NFL, NHL, MLB, NBA etc. are comprised of individuals, some of who support trump, some of who don’t. My entire point was never to say support is equal, that was something you accused me of saying that I never said, my entire point was that I believe that when a person draws a line, they’re going to look like a hypocrite. With that said, anyone can follow any company or not follow any company that they choose.

Ill be honest, I’m disappointed in your response, I knew when I wrote what I wrote that there was a good chance you would jump down my throat, so I legitimately tried to write it in a way that didn’t piss you off because I didn’t want to have this debate with you again, and despite what you may think I don’t enjoy upsetting you.

To be crystal clear as I am not doing the back and forth thing about this with you for what the 5th time, I AM NOT saying any companies or individuals are equal in their support of Trump, I just said that all of the major sports/entertainment companies have ties one way or another in varying degrees.

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Exactly, this is my point. Are the McMahon’s more connected to Trump than the Khans? Of course they are, Linda was in the damn cabinet. Is Khan more connected to Trump than Ari Emanuel? Yes. Is Jericho an AEW wrestler who’s likely a conservative who supported the Jan 6 BS, seems like it since his wife was there. Is AJ Styles a WWE wrestler likely a conservative, yes. Is Brian Danielson an AEW talent and a Democrat? I’m 99.9% sure. It’s not an AEW vs WWE thing, its employees/management/ownership/shareholders in both companies are on both sides.

I really don’t get why what I’m saying is so controversial.

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Nobody is arguing.

In saying that it is relatively easily to avoid giving money to those companies that are very public in the support they give to different political ideologies.

The mental gymnastics going on here are all your own.

For example, I’m not going to support and watch content from The Daily Wire or watch movies from Angel Studios, etc - because their entire platform is dedicated to right wing media creation to further cause division and push people down.

Of course a lot of billionaires and media conglomerates are backed by people who privately support Trump. But those entertainment choices aren’t making it their position publicly to use their media of choice to push a political and hateful agenda.

Ari Emmanuel may publicly be for one thing - but again, he owns a company that dedicates time to pushing Trump.

This isn’t hard to understand how easy it is to draw a line.

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I just think, at this point in history, the time for “both sides are equally bad!” Or both sides have good people, are done.

The majority of the United States just elected an openly racist, openly transphobic, openly sexist, criminal to the presidency. The time for allowing these things as “political differences” to slide, is over.

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It is simple if the entire intent and output of the company is directed at one goal like the examples you’ve provided.

However, Sorry, but it’s really not as simple as you make it seem unless you look at companies and media entities as a monolithic entity and not as a conglomerate of a myriad of people and their ideas who work under a banner, which will have its own goals and political/social leanings based on what’s best for the company’s productivity and financial goals. This difference means that individual actors may have one opinion, while the thing they work for and make up the productive element of espouses different values.

Moreover, as a consumer, ideally, you choose and financially support the entities that you like, irrespective of their political preferences, because you like and enjoy what they produce.

I’ll say this again (I’ve said it on a Post show and written it on my medium page): how can I, a transgender person, adore motorsports and give money to an industry deeply entrenched in a long-standing developing/continuing/deeping financial agreement with sports washing nations wherein my existence is illegal and I could be beheaded in the streets?

It’s using a version of the social contract theory. (Contemporary Approaches to the Social Contract (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)) (Social contract - Wikipedia).

Otherwise, I’d be trapped in an ideologically built and supported bubble and have my options on everything possible in the world limited to a very minimal selection of things for me to use and enjoy.

Do you not shop at Home Depot when you are doing a self-repair because the founder was a big republican supporter? I’d say unlikely, especially considering how ubiquitous home depots are and how they will likely be able to provide the materials and on-demand and at a Cost a smaller, independent hardware store can’t compete with. Moreover, what if the local hardware store only carries Milwaukee tools (which for the sake of this example will be a conservative company)? Do you support the store owner or stand by your hard stance to not support things that support Republicans/Trumpism/human rights issues?

It’s not so easy when you get into the weeds of it all.

Obviously, this behavior at the show is abhorrent but it’s nothing new and should be expected to be more frequent, open, and destructive considering the world’s political right-wing shift emboldens this behavior.

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I like to think it says more about the goodness and righteousness of society that poor behaviour is called out and rejected, than it says bad about society that such behaviour exists in the first place.

There’s always gonna be crazy people in the fringe of society, holding unacceptable viewpoints. Whether it’s Trump supporters telling Latino wrestlers to “go home,” or Palestinian activists burning Canadian flags chanting “death to Canada.” These are bad actors within a much larger, less-problematic group of mostly normal people. The important thing is that the behaviour is called out and shut down and not allowed to fester.

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No, I’m not the one playing mental Gymnastics here. I admit that despite being a liberal myself, I support two companies in WWE and AEW that both have republican ties to varying degrees.

You frame things on here so simply to align with your fandom. It feels like you have created a false narrative that WWE=Republican and AEW=Democrat (hence the mental gymnastics) when in reality it isn’t that simple. Yes, if you use an example like the Daily Wire it’s simple (I would never support the Daily Wire), but WWE and AEW is not Ben Shapiro vs Sam Seder where its a clear line.

I’m not challenging your view point here to be an asshole, I legit feel bad pushing back on you with stuff like this, but for the many reasons I already started, there are democratic and republican ties to each company.

Of course the Republican connection appears stronger on the WWE side, it’s also fair to say that most of the ties you are connecting are connected to the UFC and the McMahons. Not to say current WWE has none, but if we are going to tie UFC actions to WWE, then it’s more then fair to tie Shad Khan or Chris Jerichos actions/words to AEW.

You bring up the sports washing, I agree with you on this one. I hate that connection.

If WWE was still 100% connected to Vince and not run my an open Democrat and the Khans were open democrats (which they are not) it would be different, but that’s not the case here.

Again, I didn’t even want to go here with you, I tried to be as unconfrontational as possible in my initial post, however you pushed back on me hard from a simple line.