You are mistaken me for someone else. There is a fine line for everything and in NXT they tend to cross it more than once in more than one match on a (Takeover) show now. My favorite matches in AEW so far are actually the more grounded, story driven ones (Cody vs Dustin, for an example, Jericho vs Darby too). I like some crazy stuff like what the Lucha Bros are doing, but you can see me complaining about them skipping tags and CONSTANTLY beating the guy on the apron to prevent the one in the ring from tagging him (why is this no DQ, it pisses me off so much every time?). I would say that I am yet to see AEW go that spotfest crazy as this ME was (and I am obviously not counting that Moxley/Omega BS match, as its stipulation was to do exactly that).
Really how about Bucks and Lucha Bros Ladder match?
But yes looking at history you are not as hugely positive on AEW. In general though I feel like the matches here were typical of a lot of modern wrestling. NJPW main events for example. I agree kick outs can get to be at bit much at times and I do think other moves should end matches at times.
On Johnny I think we need to start a New name Jobbers Takeover. I love Johnny and his matches are always great but he always loses. He is 5-11 at Takeover (counting worlds collide as a Takeover if not he is 4-11) and 3-8 in singles. Starting to feel like he is just they guy they put in there when they want to make other guys look great.
They call Shawn Mr. WM and all he ever did was lose there too lol
True he was 6-11 at mania. So Johnny really is trying to be Shawn his idol 
. Though some of that was set up by Shawn himself being cocky and calling himself things like Mr. Wrestlemania.
Well, it’s a LADDER match. Things are always kinda crazy there. I’m talking when stuff like that happens in regular, “classic” wrestling matches. I’ll take it once or twice, but when it get ridiculous like that. Also one thing to point out - after all this punishment and interference, Ciampa basically defeated the entire UE by his own and was about to win the match if not for the betrayal of Gargano. Pardon me for not suspending my disbelief, but rolled my eyes instead.
NJPW main events have NOTHING like this abomination here.
NJPW for an Okada main event match has the same formula. They will waste 25 mins-30mins then Okada will hit a drop kick and a tombstone that everyone kicks out of of.
Then he hits a rainmaker and it’s kicked out. He kicks out of finisher. Eventually he gets “wrist control” and hits another rainmaker that’s kicked out. Then a spinning rainmaker and a final rainmaker to win.
It’s the same.
I agree it was way overdone in the NXT match - Ciampa kicked out of too much and so did Cole. I had no reason to believe Ciampa even had it won when the ref was bumped lol.
NJPW has plenty of finisher kick outs. I also don’t buy the reasoning that in a ladder match it is ok to have guys no sell finishers and big moves but it isn’t in a regular match. Either you are ok with guys standing back up after things that should put them down for good, or you’re not. I mean too each their own on liking the style of match, but it feels pretty common these days. I’d prefer it not be that way too, but it is way better than what we get from Main roster most times.
It’s always been like that - if a wrestler is in a hardcore (or a ladder or whatever) match, he can get multiple chairshots, dust them off and continue fighting, but when not in a hardcore match, one chairshot usually means that he’s losing. Wrestling logic. yes, you can apply this to high stakes main events, but this here was preposterous.
NJPW also does the finisher kick out, yes, but it is usually once per opponent per High. Stakes. Match. and the story of the match itself is such that you are told that the other guy can kick out (slight off topic: Kazarian last week was close to the ropes when he got pinned at the end, something I’ve seen thousand times and wondered why the fuck when you are so close to the ropes you don’t try to break the pin? Well guess what - Kaz did that - he reached and grabbed the rope… a fraction of the second after the 3 count. I gave him a standing applause. This was brilliant). It is not often when a guy kicks out of two finishers in NJPW. What you can see and get confused with is when Okada, for example, decides to put on an exclamation point on the match/feud and hit the OP with two or three Rainmakers in a row (as and Tanahashi doing the same with a series High Fly Floes), with no pin atemp between them.
I am also not talking about kicking out of finishers in general that pisses me off, but the fact that a silly looking THIGH in the head is more damaging than some of those moves done earlier. Or a Poison Rana of the top rope (done by a heavyweight onto a heavyweight!) is less devastating than their regular slam finisher.
I’ll say this - while the opening match on this show actually managed to get me with storytelling while it was going, the main event absolutely lost me at the same time.
I mean I agree on the finisher being more of a thing than other high impact moves but that is the same wrestling logic that you apply to hardcore matches. Unfortunately in modern wrestling most matches are ended with finisher (or roll ups) and not with other big moves. Which is something I agree should change finishers should be saved and only used as actual finishers if nothing else works.
I’m over complaining about people kicking out all the time now. That is wrestling in 2020 unfortunately. The most devastating moves, seem to have very little meaning.
I think people really badly overrate the Dijakovic/Lee matches. They legit hit the exact same big moves, in every match against each other and people act shocked, as if we haven’t seen it before. Not saying it’s not a really good match, but to say it’s MOTY contender is ridiculous, in my opinion.
You are having a laugh. It was another overbooked mess with too many matches lasting far to long.
The best matches were Tegan Knox vs Dakota Kai and Rhea Ripley vs Bianca Belair. Hardly any obvious cooperation spots, hard hitting and realistic (as far as pro-wrestling can be). Plus they weren’t 30 minutes long.
Finn Balor is a different wrestler since returning to NXT and has managed to make be interested in watching his matches (even when paired with the incredibly irritating Johnny Gargano).
The main event I will give you was a mess at the end
Balor vs JG and the tag title match were epics. The Keith Lee match they have donee better at PWG
Re-watching the card, I think they should have picked either Gargano/Balor or Ciampa/Cole to be the “NXT style” main event match. They were very similar and putting the Balor match on in the middle of the card took a lot away from the main event.
In response to the 30+ minute criticism I have this counter…these are the main event talent. There is a reason they are the main event, they are suppose to be the most talented wrestlers who have the stamina and the ability to continue long into matches to earn a win. In the Cole-Ciampa match in particular I really enjoyed that they took turns getting in multiple offensive moves. Cole would hit a few, Ciampa would come back and hit a few, it was a real back and forth with each trying to weaken the other one. In turn, they were both weaker making hitting finishers less impactful and allowing for kickouts.
I think with so much talent and the ability to perform so many moves and sequences at such breathtaking quality, then the matches have to be longer to allow in-ring stories to be told.
Yup I would much rather have the Portland card with 6 matches all 13+ mins with 3 over 20 (2 near 30) then I would the TLC card with 8 matches on the card. Things can often be better, but I can also buy more kickouts in important matches as more is on the line and one is less likely to quit, more likely to push past their limits for the prize.
More kick outs does not equal better matches. For reference - go check Minoru Suzuki matches.
Also, not the kick outs themselves are the problem (for me), but the move that has been kicked out from. Sometimes after some brutally looking move its actually irritating and kills all the suspension of disbelief I’ve had with the match.
The one thing that annoys me is that Cole, Gargano, etc use moves that NEVER win matches and just keep using them despite never winning a single match ever with them. For example, the Panama Sunrise (which I hate and think looks awkward) I dont think has ever won a match - so why does Cole use it all the time still? It’s not effective.
I’m sure you will all be shocked that we need to agree to disagree! All a 30 minute match that is booked 50/50 so that each participant can hit multiple moves that should be finishers conditions me to feel is that both are ineffectual and that neither are stars.
They are meant to be simulating a fight, not choreographing a dance. These types of matches are so clichéd.
There is a reason Brock feels like and is probably the only real star in North American pro-wrestling.
Cause real fights never go 30 mins? Boxing and UFC would beg to differ. I would say Brocks best matches are also his longer matches. Wrestling has always been a fake simulated fight involving moves that no one would use in a real fight. So it is rather about where you draw the line in suspension of disbelief rather than one thing being real and the other not. If I wanted true real fighting I would watch an actual combat sport not pro-wrestling. For me Pro-wrestling is about superheroes fighting more akin to a shonen anime/manga based on sports than an actual fight. It is about a fight with a story behind it and people doing stuff that looks cool and I can buy as being damaging. The only parts of pro-wrestling that would be effective in an actual fight are some of the most boring stuff.