IMPACT Bound for Glory Results: TNA Is Back, Shelley vs. Alexander, Ospreay vs. Speedball

Originally published at

IMPACT Wrestling Bound For Glory

October 21st, 2023

By: John Siino

Cicero Stadium in Cicero, IL

Commentary: Tom Hannifan & Matthew Rehwoldt

Dark Match – IMPACT Knockouts Tag Team Championship: MK Ultra (Masha Slamovich & Killer Kelly) (c) defeated Tasha Steelz & Deonna Purrazzo, to retain *

This match was initially promoted as being on the Pay-Per-View but was taped before the event, possibly for a future Digital Media release.

Traci Brooks Enters The IMPACT Wrestling Hall of Fame (Countdown To Bound For Glory)

Great video package on Traci Brooks to start the show with comments from her husband Frankie Kazarian, their son Rebel, Gail Kim, Scott D’Amore, The Motor City Machine Guns, Jordynne Grace, Eric Young, and more.

Gail Kim came out to the stage to induct Brooks and said it was her honor to do it and promised to be nice because of her son Rebel being there. Kim calls Brooks her sister and finding the perfect words was tough and said it she was the first wrestler she met when she entered wrestling school in 2000. Brooks welcomed her and she did this for every locker room she was a part of. Back then, not a lot of girls were wrestling so they only had themselves to lean on, and later on, they had Beth Phoenix. Brooks showed her the ropes and booked her on their shows together, and she would love to share their adventures on the road together but what happens there, stays there but did share that she had to buy a new car because of one night. Kim mentioned they had both their first bikini & hardcore match together. Brooks was not only a wrestler, but a manager, interviewer, and referee, and welcomed her as the ‘Original Knockout’.

Kazarian & Rebel escort Brooks out to the podium who says she has a lot to stay and talks about growing up at a farm and her parents have a strong work ethic. She calls her husband her best friend and the love of her life and says how proud his dad and Killer Kowalski would be of the man he has become. Brooks got a bit emotional as she spoke to her son about the accomplishments she and Kazarian were able to do. Brooks talks about Kim being the favorite person she had to beat up and became sisters as a result. She brings up Bound for Glory 2007 as an important moment in Knockouts history and then thanks ODB and a sleuth of Knockouts who were in TNA/IMPACT. Brooks then thanks male wrestlers especially Eric Young & Robert Roode, and her trainers as well as other legends who helped her along the way, including Don West & Mike Tenay making her career even better. She thanked Eddie Edwards & Alisha Edwards for letting her kick-ass for one last time. She talks about IMPACT’s past & present being family and thanks the fans for letting this little farm girl live her dreams.

Don West & Mike Tenay Enter The IMPACT Wrestling Hall of Fame (Countdown To Bound For Glory)

Another great video package with members of the roster doing their best Don West impersonations. Scott D’Amore came out to induct Don West & Mike Tenay. D’Amore first talks about Traci Brooks deserving her induction, before talking about West & Tenay being the voice of a generation being an understatement, and calling them the tag team broadcasters. D’Amore said their significance to the company could never be undervalued, and called them a dynamic duo and true friends to him and other members of the company. D’Amore brings up his first day in IMPACT, Tenay walked up to him saying that he’s going to fit in great and that he would love his broadcast partner. West & Tenay welcomed everybody, and everybody loved them; the wrestlers, the crew, the staff & the fans. D’Amore brings up one of his favorite moments in 2006, when Tenay, Simon Diamond, and D’Amore went to a Chicago White Sox training game. D’Amore says he doesn’t think Tenay gets the respect he deserves and that he was part of actively creating those very moments and brings up West’s sense of humor, hustle & passion. D’Amore brings up Slammiversary 2017 when they had returned and brings up one of only two Team Canada jackets he ever wore on TV, and when West heard that he auctioned his right then and there. West then through in an autograph from D’Amore and called him the best salesperson in this or any other business and he had to be able to sell Scott D’Amore memorabilia. D’Amore welcomes the families of both Tenay & West and welcomes out Mike Tenay.

Tenay starts thanking everyone and says it’s fitting inducting West right here in his hometown. Tenay said TNA executives saw West on the shopping network and thought his sales pitch would become perfect for wrestling and West was proud of Will Ferrell impersonating him on Saturday Night Live. Tenay brings up ‘wrestling purists’ thinking West was too much, but West won them over by studying the product, learning about the wrestlers, and that his energy & enthusiasm weren’t manufactured, but genuine. When he passed, it was also mentioned on AEW & WWE, two companies he never worked for and that’s something that doesn’t help in today’s political wrestling product. Tenay brings up that West was his son Eric’s favorite wrestling broadcaster. Tenay brings up how many shows he and West did together and brings up West being a true friend and how great it is to have his family here tonight. Tenay brings up others he shared the commentary booth, including Bobby Heenan who was also from here in Chicago, and talks about a Heenan story where a fan got so mad at him, that he fired a gun twice at him and the shooter never being identified due to Chicago taking the ‘no snitching’ rule to heart. Tenay brings up a WCW Nitro where fans chanted ‘Goldberg’ and started thanking people like Eric Bischoff, Steve McMichael (offering his support while he’s dealing with his health issues), Jeff & Jerry Jarrett, Keith Mitchell, Konnan, and more. Tenay brings up Dick the Bruiser becoming one of his best friends, congratulates Traci Brooks, and thanks his family, including his granddaughter asking if she has to refer to him as ‘Mr. Hall of Famer’, and he responded that not being a bad idea if she wanted to be mentioned in his will. Tenay thanks his wife and his peers, and thanks IMPACT Wrestling & Chicago. Tenay then passes the torch and pitches to Tom Hannifan & Matthew Rehwoldt. Great speech.

IMPACT X-Division Championship: Chris Sabin (c) vs. KENTA

The X-Factor facts bring up this being a first-time matchup, KENTA not losing a match in 3 months & Chris Sabin having won 5 straight matches on IMPACT television. KENTA starts the match taking Sabin down and going for kicks, but Sabin takes it to the outside and lands a kick off the apron before diving onto KENTA on the outside. Sabin sends KENTA back inside and hits a crossbody for two. Sabin sends KENTA to the ropes, but he escapes to the outside and dodges a diving Sabin, before driving him back-first into the apron. The crowd starts chanting for both men before KENTA sends Sabin back inside where he hits a neckbreaker and goes for four back-to-back pins with Sabin kicking out at two every time. Sabin takes control, hitting a tornado DDT for a close two. KENTA comes back his own Tornado DDT on the ropes and a crossbody off the top for a two. KENTA hits a draping DDT, a boot & dropkick in the corner, before heading to the top and striving a double stomp, but Sabin dodges it and hits a step-up Enziguri as both men are laid out.

Sabin picks up KENTA for the Cradle Shock, but he uses the referee to escape, then rolls up Sabin with his feet on the rope, but the referee catches him and stops the count. They go back and forth until KENTA hits a DDT and goes back to the top, this time landing the double stomp for a two. Sabin escapes out of a GTS attempt, as KENTA lands a flurry of strikes just to be stopped by a super kick from Sabin. A bit of back and forth, as Sabin hits a missile dropkick to the back of KENTA’s head, followed by the Clothesline from Hell Michigan, and the Cradle Shock to get the pin and the win.

Winner: Chris Sabin by pinfall at 11:28, to retain

Monster’s Ball Match: Rhino vs. Steve Maclin vs. Moose vs. PCO

We see all four participants being released from their rooms after being contained for 24 hours with no light, food, or water. As Rhino starts to make his entrance, he gets attacked from behind by Steve Maclin. Moose runs out and starts attacking Rhino & Maclin with his Fiest or Fired briefcase. Moose sends Maclin inside and gets ready to hit the spear, but PCO’s music hits as he comes out to officially start the match. PCO goes right after Maclin but ends up getting back body dropped onto a ladder on the outside. Rhino starts using a trash can on Maclin & Moose as commentary brings up this being Rhino’s first Monster’s Ball in 14 years. Maclin starts attacking PCO’s back with a chair as the crowd starts booing at him. Maclin bounced the chair off the ropes onto him as PCO dodged him, took him out, and cannonballed Rhino on the outside, as a PCO chant erupted. PCO follows with a leg drop off the ropes to the back of Maclin’s neck and starts attacking him on the apron. PCO finds a black bag under the ring, but Moose takes him out with a trash can lid before he can use it.

Moose hits a uranage on PCO, but he gets right back up, just for Moose to hit another one, and keeps kicking PCO down, before giving up and tossing him to the outside. Moose grabs the bag of tacks and spills them on top of a bed of cinder blocks before power bombing PCO onto them. Maclin hits a scud missile to Moose on the outside and sends him back inside, putting him in the Tree of Woe position, before hitting the Crosshairs, but Rhino stops Maclin from hitting the KIA. Rhino finds a barbed-wired table from under the ring and sets it up on the outside. Maclin is able to take control of Rhino and attack his leg and chest with a chair. Maclin heads to the top rope, but Bully Ray runs out and pushes Maclin off the top, crashing through the barbed-wired table asking him ‘Who’s soft, now?’ Moose & PCO start battling it out inside where PCO hits a DDT, heads to the top rope, but gets stopped by Moose attacking him with a chair. Rhino hits a gore on Moose, but he is holding a chair so they both go taken out as PCO hits the PCO-Sault on Moose to get the win.

Winner: PCO by pinfall at 11:10

The Best Knockout

Gia Miller is backstage with Mickie James and says tonight is the first time ever she’ll be facing off against Trinity and talks about this being the opportunity for James to regain the title she never lost. James reiterates the first-time scenario and there’s only one way to find out who’s the best Knockout.

IMPACT World Tag Team Championship: The Rascalz (Trey Miguel & Zachary Wentz) (c) vs. ABC (Ace Austin & Chris Bey)

This is Chris Bey cashing in his Feast or Fired Tag Team Championship opportunity as Bey & Trey Miguel start the match fast, by running the ropes and dodging moves from each other before Bey gets backed up into his corner where Ace Austin tags himself and they double team Miguel in their corner. Zachary Wentz gets involved as The Rascalz now start double-teaming on Austin, with Wentz tagging in and getting a two-count. Wentz & Austin go back and forth with Miguel getting involved on the apron and taking Austin off the apron with a neckbreaker. Austin & Miguel go at it, with Austin kicking Miguel off the ropes to the outside where he hits him and Wentz with a Fosbury Flop.

Bey tags in and fights off The Rascalz, but Miguel stops Bey from trying to hit a brainbuster on Wentz. Bey ends up taking them out and does hit the brainbuster on Wentz for a two. Austin tags in as he and Bey double-team on Wentz, just for Miguel to break up the pin attempt. Wentz fights off ABC, and tags in Miguel as they go after Austin with a slingshot and superkick combo followed by a stomp from Wentz, who then dives onto Bey on the outside. All four men start going at it with Miguel hitting a meteora on Austin, followed by a senton from Wentz, but Bey breaks up the cover with a dive from the top rope. Wentz goes to grab the spray paint, but accidentally sprays Miguel with it. ABC starts taking advantage and hits the Art of Finesse & The Fold combo on Wentz, as Austin gets the pin for the win.

Winners: ABC (Chris Bey & Ace Austin) by pinfall at 9:48, to become NEW IMPACT World Tag Team Champions

Mike Bailey vs. Will Ospreay

This is Will Ospreay’s first match in IMPACT since January 2016, as the crowd already starts a ‘holy shit’ chant before they can lock up. They quickly start going at it on the apron, where Mike Bailey lands kicks with one knocking Ospreay to the outside where he meets him with a moonsault from inside to the outside. They start fighting outside and back inside the ring before Ospreay stops Bailey’s momentum with an abdominal stretch. Ospreay goes to dive to Bailey on the outside, but he dodges it by jumping off the apron, onto the ropes hitting a moonsault to Ospreay in a crazy quick fashion. 

Bailey starts delivering kicks to Ospreay inside, sets him on the ropes, follows him up, and hits a hurricanrana as the crowd chants back and forth for both men.  They start running the ropes, where Ospreay bounces off and lands a kick right on the head of Bailey as both men are now laid out. Ospreay follows with a springboard forearm to get a two, as commentary mentions it possibly being in tribute to AJ Styles. Ospreay continues with a Cheeky Nando’s and tries a powerbomb, but Bailey escapes out and eventually hits a poison rana on Ospreay. Bailey sweeps Ospreay on the apron, tries the standing double knees, but gets kicked into the ring post as Ospreay hits him with an Os Cutter. They both beat the outside count, as Ospreay follows with a springboard leg drop and another Os Cutter, but Bailey kicks out at two. Ospreay goes for the Hidden Blade, but Bailey collapses before he can contact. They start trading forearms and kicks, with some vicious-looking superkicks before Ospreay catches the back of Bailey with the Hidden Blade, and both men fall to the mat.

Ospreay tries another Os Cutter, but Bailey stops him with knees to the back, followed by the Ultima Weapon for an extremely close two. Ospreay quickly follows with a super-fast elbow as they go into a wild sequence as Bailey lands the double knees, places Ospreay on the top rope, and hits Meteor Rain (top rope Fisherman’s Buster) for a two-count. Bailey hits the Tornado kick and goes for the Flamingo Driver, just for Ospreay to escape out and hit the Styles Clash for a two. Ospreay holds on and hits the Tiger Driver ’93, as Bailey just gets the shoulders up. Bailey struggles to get up, as Ospreay follows with the Hidden Blade & Storm Breaker for the win. Phenomenal match. Wow.

Winner: Will Ospreay by pinfall at 17:59

Call Your Shot Gauntlet Match

After taking the pinfall from Dirty Dango in a recent entry match, Jake Something has to start number one in this match as Eddie Edwards comes out at number two. They start fighting in the corner as Something tells Edwards to give him his best with his chops before Something knocks Edwards down with a couple of shoulder blocks. Kenny King came out at number three, accompanied by Sheldon Jean as he and Edwards started double teaming on Something as we get an Honor No More reunion. We get our first surprise, as Juventud Guerrera comes out at number four to a big pop, and takes out Jean off the apron. Johnny Swinger makes his return at #5 and goes right after King. Juventud goes after King and clotheslines him over the top rope, to get our first elimination. Swinger goes to hug his old friend Juventud, but Crazzy Steve who is not in this match comes out and starts attacking Swinger & Juventud with his briefcase.

Gisele Shaw comes out at #6, as security runs out to escort Crazzy Steve out as commentary mentions Steve possibly attacking Swinger & Juventud because of their ECW connection to Tommy Dreamer. During this confusion, Shaw eliminates Swinger as Steve starts going after Swinger with a fork, and Dreamer runs out to take Steve and brawl all the way through the crowd. Jody Threat is out at #7 and goes after Shaw but she is saved by Jai Vidal & Savannah Evans on the outside from elimination. KiLynn King is out at #8 and goes after Threat. Edwards & Juventud go at it on the apron, before Edwards tosses Juventud to the outside, eliminating him. The next surprise is Sonny Kiss at #9, getting a pretty big reaction as Kiss sends Shaw to the outside, eliminating her. Bully Ray is #10 and has a stare-down with Kiss and challenges him to a dance-off which Bully surprisingly agrees on.

The next surprise is Matt Cardona at #11, as Bully & Kiss do the what’s up headbutt to Cardona before Bully yells at Kiss to get the tables, but sadly KiLynn attacks Kiss, stopping that from happening. Jordynne Grace is out at #12 and goes after Bully, followed by Eric Young at #13 who takes out Cardona with a piledriver before clotheslining Edwards over the top rope, eliminating him. Joe Hendry comes out at #14 and goes right after Cardona, followed by Brian Myers at #15 who takes out Hendry. Myers & Cardona have a face-off, before hugging it out, only for Kiss to attack them both only for them to toss Kiss over the top rope for the elimination. Heath is out at #16 and starts hitting Wake Up Calls on everyone, but Myers ends up tossing Heath over the top rope, eliminating him. Frankie Kazarian is out at #17, followed by Rich Swann at #18. Jonathan Gresham is out at #19 and eliminates Jody Threat.  Dirty Dango is out as the last entrant, along with Oleg Prudius & Alpha Bravo, but Something tosses Dango the second he enters the ring. Prudius enters the ring and starts attacking everybody, before security and officials escort Prudius out of the ring.

During this, Myers & Cardona eliminate Kazarian as Gresham is trying to eliminate his wife, Grace. Myers ends up kicking Swann off the apron, eliminating him, as Cardona eliminates Young. Something catches Gresham off the ropes with a moonsault attempt, to toss him over the top rope. The Major Players try to suplex Something, but he’s able to turn it and hit one on them both. Something goes to eliminate Cardona, but Myers takes him out from behind with a low blow, as they both toss out Something, just for Cardona to then eliminate Myers. We are now down to the final four in Cardona, KiLynn, Grace & Bully Ray as Ray eliminates KiLynn & Grace eliminates Cardona.

It is now down to Ray & Grace, as now the match must be won by pinfall or submission. Grace challenges Ray to hit her, as he knocks her down with a chop. Grace dodges a senton from Ray, and hits three spinning back fists, but Ray is able to knock her down, before missing an elbow drop. Grace follows with seven more spinning back fists, followed by the Juggernaut Driver for the pin and the win.

Winner: Jordynne Grace by pinfall at 28:57

Grace gets on the mic after and says she loves making history, as she has become the first Knockout to win a Call Your Shot Gauntlet match, and says she is already calling her shot for the Knockouts World Championship at Hard to Kill.

IMPACT Knockouts World Championship: Trinity (c) vs. Mickie James

They start the match slow by locking up and trying to take each other down before going into pin attempts. Trinity tries her Star Struck submission, but James is able to reverse out of it. They continue to trade pin attempts as Trinity is able to duck and dodge out from James. A bit more back and forth with Trinity taking James out with a hurricanrana. They start trading forearms and punches, duck each other’s kicks, and knock each other down with a double crossbody. They both end up on the outside, but both are able to get into the ring at the nine count. Back inside, Trinity stops James from running the ropes with the Rear View, for a two-count.

They start trading trademark poses, as James knocks Trinity down, heads to the top rope, and hits the seated senton for a two. Trinity takes advantage, hitting a split-legged moonsault, for two. James hits the Mick Kick, but Trinity is able to kick out at two. Trinity puts on body scissors and is able to roll James around for a bunch of pin attempts, which James is able to kick out at everyone. They wrestle in the corner, where James hits a Tornado DDT, getting a two-count. A bit of back and forth until James is able to drive Trinity head-first off the ropes onto the mat as the referee goes to check on Trinity. Trinity stops the Mick DT attempt until she eventually puts on the Star Struck submission, tweaking the move a bit until James taps out. Trinity embraced her the second the bell rang.

Winner: Trinity by submission at 11:58, to retain

Moose Announces Cash-In

Gia Miller is backstage with Moose and says he is not a loser, but always a winner when he has the briefcase, as he says at Hard to Kill he will cash in his Feast or Fired contract for an IMPACT World Championship title shot.

IMPACT World Championship: Alex Shelley (c) vs. Josh Alexander

They start the match, trying to take each other down and rolling around the mat before having a bit of a standstill. We see them both escaping out of their moves, as Josh Alexander escapes the Shell Shock, and puts on the ankle lock, just for Alex Shelley to slither out of the ring. Shelley starts twisting on Alexander’s fingers, before rolling him up for a two. They start running the ropes to take each other down before going into a forearm exchange with Shelley screaming ‘Come on, you son of a bitch’. Alexander comes back, by kicking Shelley down with a big boot. They battle on the apron, where Shelley stomps on Alexander’s arm, just for Alexander to send him down with him, tries a C4 Spike, but gets back body dropped on the outside.

Shelley starts bending Alexander’s arm and fingers in between the steel of the ring post, but eventually grabs Shelley and drives him face-first into the post. Alexander puts on the ring post figure-four ala Bret Hart before they take it back inside as Shelley catches Alexander in the corner. Alexander holds on for a couple of German Suplexes, as Shelley takes a turnbuckle pad off with the first one. Shelley hits a tilt-a-whirl into the Border City Stretch, but Alexander is able to escape by putting his leg on the rope. They go back and forth a bit until Shelley hits a twisting neckbreaker. Shelley stops Alexander, by sending him face-first into the corner, followed by a snap German Suplex and a Sliced Bread, but Alexander holds on and hits a German Suplex for two. Shelley stops a couple of C4 Spike attempts before they head into the ropes where Alexander hits a Dragon Screw. They head to the outside where Shelley sends Alexander into the barricade with a Shell Shock and the Sliced Bread off the ring post.

Back inside, Shelley hits a frog splash for two and immediately puts on the Border City Stretch, but Alexander rolls it into a pin attempt followed by the ankle lock. Shelley gets out, but Alexander traps on a knee bar. Shelley slaps his way out, knocking Alexander’s headgear off. A bit more back and forth at the end, each trying to go for the other’s moves until Shelley finally hits the Shell Shock. Shelley follows with another Shell Shock to get the pin and the win.

Winner: Alex Shelley by pinfall at 22:32, to retain

They shake hands after the match, as Alexander straps the title around Shelley’s waist.

TNA Is Back

We see a video of the entire IMPACT roster in the woods talking about a change and going back to where it all started as it’s announced they are going back to being TNA Wrestling with their next show; Hard to Kill taking place on January 13th in Las Vegas, Nevada at the Palms.

We cut to the ring, where Scott D’Amore and the roster are there with D’Amore saying ‘we’re back’, before dropping the mic.

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Bad choice, the lame, troglodytic pun of a brand should have stayed dead.

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Look, the TNA name is an incredibly dated / late 90’s - early 2000’s attempt at edge. It was dumb.

But… Nobody thinks of that today though. And the rebranding to Impact made sense in 2018 or whenever, because the TNA name was so dead.

In 2023, the company is old enough for fans to have true nostalgia for the TNA name and brand. So… Why not?

It’s harmless, and can’t do any damage to the company at this point.

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The purpose of the name change was to get people talking about the promotion, which it did.

Personally I would like to see them go back to the six-sided ring just to be totally different but that’s apparently not happening


A lot of people will make the association to the shitty pun of the name… And, they’ll sigh, only an even more resigned and dismissive sigh than in the 00s.

Changing the name to IMPACT, was a much needed course correction for the company in a time when they needed it most. And they’ve spent years now, rebuilding their brand, product and the goodwill with fans. Reverting the name back to “TNA” is a disservice to all of that hardworking and only serves to remind people of a bygone era of a company that struggled with putting together a consistent quality product, and struggled with internal politics and was named for misogynist pun in very poor taste and worse judgement.

Now today, it doubles down on poor taste and bad judgement.

Negative attention isn’t the kind of re-engagement and growth they need to encourage viewership. They’re struggling because they’re on a channel and platform that doesn’t’t reach people and they aren’t actively showing everyone what they offer that is different from AEW, NJPW and WWE or elevated Indies like CZW, MLW and WOW.

This change doesn’t help them “complete” or elavate their product. It’s a short term shock, without a longterm pay off.

“Getting people talking” in this day and age is stunt marketing, which only ever has a short-term yield. Wrestling as an entertainment product isn’t finite but continuous, long-term storytelling with cyclical narrative flourishes… WCWs leadership changes, stunt booking, and an illogical rebranding proved that.

TNA itself proved that. As a promotion, they were undermined by their repetitious use of stunt booking and “surprises.” The trope “What are they doing in the IMPACT zone?” was born of that stunt booking.

So, I can relate it to fundraising marketing… In fundraising marketing, it’s called “premiums,” instead of crafting sustainable cause marketing to donors, you constantly add more expensive premiums in the appeals intended to incentivize giving and reduce donor attrition., growing loyalty. But, if you start to rely on “premium” pieces in your appeals, you are spending more to produce and distribute them, adding more overhead costs, meaning… You’re impeding your program growth by cutting into the revenue yield.

That is what stunt marketing is for a product dependent on longer-term engagement and reoccurring consumption. Eric Bishoff’s mantra “Controversy creates Cash” is a flawed model. It’s why Vince Russo is bad at booking.

Chris Jericho is a strong example who understands his relationship with audiences and when to refresh things, but not to abandon the evergreen elements of his character, presentation and in-ring work.

As a booker, Triple H also knows the value of brand callbacks without overwriting the value of the existing product.

Rebranding to IMPACT was an essential move to shift the narrative of a company that was founded and built on an unsustainable identity that engaged in many unsustainable business and product development practices.

The TNA brand is flawed from a social, political and cultural context. It is terrible from an economic and marketing context.

This is a wrong choice, writ large.

TNA or Impact isn’t a traditional wrestling company and shouldn’t be looked at as such. They exist to produce content for the media company that owns them. That’s it.

They aren’t there to make money, sell tickets or shake up the wrestling business. So any sort of increased awareness by whatever they do is good.

They’ve had zero growth for years as Impact. It’s a good show but no one cares. Maybe this does something, maybe it doesn’t. There are a lot of people with fond memories of pre-Hogan TNA.

The company has no identity either way. It’s probably a lot easier now to sell their past library elsewhere if they’re using the same name now.