Jim Cornette's review of the Stadium Stampede

Today, I can go on Twitter, and see countless followers of his tagging every worker or spot they seem as “less than”, and urge Cornette to shit on those targets.

It’s debatable if that’s power… But with all the talk of cyber-bulling lately - Cornette definitely stirs it on.

I don’t really “care” what he has to say either. But the negativity he brings to professional wrestling is hard to be ignored.

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I see what you are saying, but the idiotic responses of fans can happen regardless of what the perspective is. For example, if we go back a year or two to when Roman Reigns was getting his mega push, if someone like Dave Meltzer was saying that Roman was being over-pushed, I’m sure idiot fans were doing the same thing to Roman. Nobody would argue that Dave shouldn’t be allowed to give his opinion anymore because it led to cyber bullying.

If Cornette was criticizing a performer because of their race or sexual orientation, then I would completely understand why his comments would upset people. However the context in this specific situation is his opinion of a wrestling match, he has the right to not like it, I just don’t see why people are so bothered by that.

Where is all the outrage when he tells Vince Russo that he needs to go and die? Or how he will piss on his grave? People excuse his behavior when it’s directed at a person they consider a “bad booker”, but when he doesn’t like a match because it involves internet darlings, that is what pisses people off?

I’m not even defending Jim Cornette as a person, I just don’t see this specific comment as a big deal.

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I think his decisions when he was a member of creative are different than him spouting opinions as an outsider. You could argue that every week, hundreds of workers are “negatively impacted” by a booker’s opinion of them, whether by how they are booked or that they aren’t booked at all. But that’s on the company who employs the booker (unless the booker also owns the company, as is the case in a few notable examples) and not the individual who was hired to voice their opinion and is responsible for the quality of the product that ends up in the ring.

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I think he’s a piece of shit too when he jumps on Russo too.

I don’t agree that he only gets criticized when he attacks indie darlings or something. I think it’s shitty no matter who he attacks.

My examples were people he actively fucked over our if years of opportunity and earnings.

Exactly. What he did when he was in a position of power is one thing. What he says on his youtube show is another.

So what about when he critiques those he previously screwed with? Using people who he caused financial and professional damage to, as fodder for his rants today?

Ya I’m not defending what he did when he was in power, but this specific thread was created because he said a match was bad. That is what I am referring to.

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Ultimately, it would be like me watching a romantic comedy movie, and complaining that I didn’t like it. Yeah, no shit! I’m not the target audience for that kind of movie.

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I see what you are saying, but wrestling on a national level is kind of an oligopoly. In the movie world there are a million movies for every genre being produced at the highest level of production.

Personally I agree with a lot of his criticism of the modern product because it either doesn’t make sense, is fn infantile or isn’t actually wrestling (which is the art of making a work look like a shoot). You cannot argue with a lot of his criticisms e.g. when your tag team partner is getting beaten to a pulp why are you standing about waiting for your entrance music and pyro or in the recent case with Darby watching it on a screen rather than going to help.

Does he go over the top sometimes? Absolutely. Does he hold a grudge? Yes, who doesn’t (although admittedly he is less forgiving than most).

But he also says positive things about some performers and AEW. Like me, he sees that AEW have the tools and resources to be a credible challenger to WWE who are unlikely to change until Vince is gone but are more interested in satisfying the “creative” whims of certain members of staff and their hardcore base than focussing on a presenting a compelling product that can attract new fans. Where did the 500-600 thousand fans that tuned in the first two weeks go? If they are anything like me, they watched and said “this is fn stupid“ and stopped tuning in.

At the end of the day, everyone is entitled to an opinion. What I find amazing (and hypocritical) is the level of rage aimed at Jim just because his opinion differs from yours. As with the recent discussions about social media, if you don’t like what you read or hear then dismiss it. I mean ffs, it is only wrestling.

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I don’t doubt Jim has these opinions, but I think he turns the volume way up on his disdain for this type of wrestling in order to make his podcasts entertaining and keep a large cult following on the Internet. Look at all the controversy he’s already stirred up here and in other places with this. I know of a few wrestling fans personally who even before he came out with his review were saying “I can’t wait to see what Jim Cornette has to say about this match.” Saying shit like this keeps him relevant, and it’s actually gotten to the point where certain people look forward to it and expect this from him.

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One thing I’ve learned after getting back into wrestling after 20 years paying no attention, is that it is completely subjective. John and Wai routinely shit on things that I might enjoy. Then I can switch to a different pod and those hosts will say they loved it. Nobody views these things from exactly the same vantage point and that’s what makes it interesting.

Cornette is just one man with one opinion. Personally I think it’s unfair to insinuate he’s guilty of “bullying” performers or rallying his audience against them. Admittedly I haven’t heard his entire backlog of pods, but of the ones I have heard, he’s usually very critical of the modern product. However I’ve never heard him tell his audience “hey everyone go tweet at ______ and tell them they’re an asshole and they suck at wrestling.” He doesn’t do that and he isn’t responsible for every dickhead on twitter who chooses to act like a moron.

As always, if you don’t like the content someone is producing, simply don’t watch or share it. Feel free to criticize it or make your podcast refuting his claims if you’re so inclined, but it’s pretty ridiculous to say he’s some sort of bully. Other critics are just as negative about the product as he is, they just aren’t as loud and outlandish in the process.

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I agree with what he says some times but he is never objective based on who the performer is. He often makes up his mind before even watching the match.

As to the ratings argument it is an argument based on possibilities not actual facts. Who is to say that 500-600k would have tuned out if it had been a more serious presentation? There is 0 Evidence that it would draw more.

I agree, but more often than not what he expects is what is delivered.

I’m open to contrarian positions but I can’t think of any that don’t end up being the people didn’t like what they saw. If you are saying that they stopped watching because it wasn’t stupid enough then that is certainly an opinion but one that is clutching at straws.

So what is your theory?

Sometimes he gets what he expects but I remember him specifically about Candice Lerae stating that he would praise her match because she had done stuff he hated in the past. So it makes me think he makes up his mind early and refuses to change.

As to the other my theory isn’t that people that tune out didn’t like what they saw. It was at least not enough to hold their attention. My argument was more that you cannot assert that if those people got what they wanted that it would not have turned others off. The supposition he makes is that if the show was more serious it would have hooked and kept all 1.5 million or whatever. There is no actual evidence supporting that reasoning. It is just as likely that in keeping that 500k, they may have turned off 500k of the people they have now. The supposition is that the fans watching now would watch no matter what. Rather that they watch because they like what is presented and might not like something else.

It is also likely that many just decided after trying that WWE presented more than enough content that they were happy with.

I agree that statements like he made about Candice are stupid and he should only form an opinion having given someone a chance.

I disagree that making matches make sense rather than being choreographed gymnastics where obvious cooperation occurs and focussing on being an adult orientated product (and by that I mean stopping all the infantile bullshit rather than being more risque) would result in any significant number of the remaining viewership stopping watching as those left watching are the AEW fundamentalists who will watch whatever they present which is backed up by the fact they are still watching the shit that is being presented.

The last part however is your opinion and not back up by any actual facts or figures. You have no way of knowing. All I’m saying is that fans like different things and largely we don’t know what in the modern entertainment world is likely to draw large ratings. I think wrestling at large is hurt by alternatives existing that fill similar niches for people. If I like real fighting I can watch it. If I want people fighting with characters and story there are a number of streaming /tv show options That fill that need.

You (like Cornette) are making an assumption that the type of wrestling you prefer would be a larger draw for more people. It might be but nothing actually backs that up. So what I am saying is maybe you are right or maybe they would have the same ratings with different fans. You like Cornette are assuming that if people will watch what you view as silly it means they will still watch no matter what. That is akin to me saying “Well people like the movie Dumb and Dumber, so of course they will like The Godfather.” Instead of acknowledging that some part of the audience enjoys the product for what they are given or tune in specifically for the Orange Cassidy segments. Those people might tune out if AEW was NJPW or NWA power etc. or they might not. It ignores that many of the AEW fundamentalists are Indy wrestling fans who love Joey Janella, the Bucks, Being the Elite etc, and that is what they want when they tune in.

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Cornette is a valuable historian and a great talker but anyone going to him for opinions on anything about wrestling from the last 20 years is getting worked

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For sure. If I wanted to hear about the 70s or the history of Wrestling, Jim is the guy to talk to. Anything about current Wrestling, he’s a complete dinosaur. I don’t think you can have a stadium stampede 20 times a year, but I think you can do these types of matches every so often.

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Don’t confuse a dramatic production with wrestling.