You didn’t answer the question so I’m assuming you were just being a d@&k seeing as nobody that has commented on this thread has said anything that supports that they are anti-vaccinations.
I will correct my statement. There is a rush to get the vaccine out there. This isn’t because of some nefarious conspiracy or cutting corners. This is because of a global pandemic that has stopped life across the world with zero proven cure or widely accessible life saving treatments. As such, it has caused nearly every government in the world to pour unlimited funding into stopping this issue.
If HIV had the same attention - I’m sure a vaccine would be found for that. Same with nearly every virus.
I’m not arguing it is the correct path or not - but the science and results are sound, and proven that it is safe (or safe enough) for the majority of people to help stop end this pandemic.
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Pfizer is betting it’s 220+ Billion market cap that they aren’t injecting people with a vaccine that is completely guesswork and we have no idea what it will do. I will trust the company putting it’s reputation and truth on the line over trusting any government official an/or random person suggesting not to trust what is being distributed.
@Bdubz is 100% correct nobody can answer for sure what will happen. He has defended his position and I will always acknowledge and applaud that in a debate.
This is directed at nobody here in particular just some random thoughts:
Ironically, everyone shouting down those who question the vaccine probably believed the Virus was as deadly and contagious as expected despite many saying early on that we did not know enough to be true in the spring. If you questioned the Virus you were flagged as somebody who must be something else. Now we are back in a position to trust the science. As a society we either go all in on trusting science or we stop with this stupid moniker made up to basically tell people they can’t think for themselves.
Here is what gets me wrinkled - if you said trust the science in the spring and got mad at people not taking the Virus seriously back then, it’s outrageous to question the vaccine now. It’s “science”. If you thought we knew enough about the virus in the spring to upend the entire world’s social and economic construct, then surely you can admit we know enough about a vaccine this early on to try and solve the virus riddle. It’s where people are inconsistent that I just am at a loss for understanding how humans rationalize things - which is totally fair I guess, to each their own.
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Completely agree with everything you said @MJfromNJ other than this. Any risk to their market cap would be purely the result of reputational damage given the indemnity agreements they are insisting on and Pfizer (and most other pharmaceutical companies) have taken many decisions that posed a risk to their reputation.
And the risk to their market cap as a result of reputational damage is significantly mitigated as investors primary concern is their exposure to financial penalties and operating licenses. The market doesn’t generally have a conscience.
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If the company injects 100+ million humans with something that proves to be entirely faulty and causes health risk, are they not opening themselves up to major liability? Who steps in on that liability? Feels like one massive class-action suit that would tank the company and likely prohibit them from participating in future drug manufacturing for a long time. Investors will not want money tied into a company that is not trusted to make drugs for the public. I tend to think they would not go bust as a company, but lose half that market cap? sure. That said, I’ll still trust the company betting half it’s market cap. Look what happen when the government turned the keys over to private industry…private industry is incentivized to know best in most cases, and government fcks around too much to understand how to get desired outcomes. Not to turn this too political, but imagine how long it would take if Warp Speed didn’t turn the keys over to the industry to work at a faster pace than historically permitted…we’d be in this conundrum for YEARS, not an overstatement. So it goes to the question, do you trust private industry, OR would you prefer to be stuck in this situation for years while we go through the normal hoops and obstacle course to get something like this to market? We have technology and science available to us that previous generations did not, the only think wrong was government red-tape did not acknowledge that. We see that in almost every industry where if the government just got out of the way OR update their antiquated laws, we’d have much better rules and regulations.
Calling people anti-vaxxers, because they have valid concerns, is fucking ignorant.
People have every right, to question what is being put into their bodies. Especially when we do not have the long term information. I’d like to think that most likely, the majority of people will be perfectly fine. But there is no way of knowing for sure, until we are 6 months, 12 months, 18 months of having information.
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I think if there’s any repercussions for a flawed product it’ll likely fall on the shoulders of government officials that approved the use of the vaccine. Pfizer has made hundreds of pharmaceuticals that are highly recommended and prescribed by doctors to treat many illnesses, all of which have gone through full testing and trials.
This vaccine is being emergency ordered, has gone through shortened testing periods and is still approved by governments for use. It’s like booking a really shitting episode of Raw because Vince McMahon walked in 5 minutes before the show started tore up the script and said I want everything to be new.
Not Pfizer. That’s what I have been saying. The companies involved in the Covid vaccines are insisting on either full financial liability waivers or liability to be capped at a relatively small amount. In some instances the country or trading block (e.g. the EU) will pay claims (although capped).
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUKKCN24V2EN
You’ve got to be kidding. The answer to that question is you get 346 Boeing 737 Max deaths.
“I may not be willing to take the vaccine. And I may not believe the doctors, chemists, and scientists who developed the vaccine know what they’re talking about. And I may believe the pharmaceutical companies behind the vaccine are forcing the vaccine through without due testing process because they’re so obsessed with shareholder dividends. And I may go on the Internet to espouse my views against the vaccine to anybody who will listen. But I am NOT anti-vaccine!”
Sound about right?
If you’re ashamed of being lumped in with anti-vaxxers, then maybe you should reconsider the stances you’re taking and how that makes you look. I’m not saying a COVID anti-vaxxer is the same as a measles anti-vaxxer. But you are both anti-vaxxers in your own ways.
Funny you’re so triggered and offended that I call you anti-vaxx. Aren’t you the resident Cornette mark? Like, normally you just parrot everything that guy says, right? You know how he feels about this issue, right? He’s got a lot harsher words for you than I’ve laid out.
If you don’t want to take the vaccine, don’t! If you are cool living in isolation for another year or two until you’re comfortable taking the vaccine, that’s your prerogative. But to be clear on my stance: Nobody who refuses the vaccine should be allowed in any public space where they put others at risk. Stay home and wait it out until you’re comfortable. And if my dick falls off or I get Bell’s Palsy in the mean time, that will be my issue to deal with. I’ve got my own concerns and worries about the vaccine but I also trust the doctors and scientists who developed it and am willing to “take the plunge” so to speak if it means society at large can get back to normal sooner rather than later.
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But if you take the vaccine you’re not at risk.
The vaccine has not proven to be 100% effective as far as I know? Maybe Alex could shed more light on this but the numbers I’ve seen have mostly been in the 90% effectiveness range. Sorry, but your hesitation to vaccinate isn’t my 1/10 gamble that I should have to take every time I’m at the grocery store. You can get your shit delivered.
There are also those who can’t vaccinate for health reasons, lack of availability, etc. Kids are not going to get the vaccine for a long time because it still hasn’t been tested on children. There are going to be plenty of at-risk people who shouldn’t have to suffer because certain people who COULD vaccinate, didn’t.
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This sums your mentality up perfectly.
Firstly, I’m not a mark for anyone.
Secondly, I know you find this hard to believe , but people can think independently and have the same outcome. The fact my opinion happens to be the same as his on a lot of wrestling analysis is because we both want a product that is realistic and makes sense, not because I “parrot everything he says”.
Finally, the fact I disagree with his position on the vaccine completely undermines your position and proves mine.
Well you better be living in China or North Korea.
I think it’s perfectly reasonable for people to be wary of the vaccine, and I don’t think it’s a matter of intelligence. In the last year there’s been so much misinformation on an international level, whether that be in the early stages where so much was unknown or outright lies and propaganda from various places, as well as a lot of rational fear, it’s been scary. All I’d say is the people who have been right on all matters concerning coronavirus are pro-vaccine.
Just telling people, they’re wrong, on a matter that affects everyone, will only push someone further into their stance. Remember this is the first week of this thing, the more it’s rolled out the more normalised it will become and hopefully more people will feel safer taking it. At the end of the day, we’re all on the same side here and hope the vaccine works whether we feel safe taking it just now or not.
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Exactly. I’m not anti-vaccine. I’m anti-rushed vaccine.
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Just to clarify, I do plan on getting the vaccine when it becomes available for me.
That being said, I don’t think it’s fair to say someone can not go somewhere or do something because of a concern for their health in not getting the vaccine. But, I can go wherever I please because I got the vaccine, but they can not because the vaccine is only 95% effective and I could still get sick, but if you can’t get the vaccine because of health reasons that’s ok, come hang out with me.
I fully understand the vaccine greatly reduces the chance of contraction, but it’s kinda BS that the same argument only works on one side.
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Only one side is refusing to vaccinate. It is absolutely reasonable that they would be treated differently.
And the other is trying to make it mandatory, what’s your point?
There’s two side, both argue that personal health is a concern, why should it be that the side of pro vaccine at this time means more than those against?
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Just now, we’re all living under restrictions, it just makes sense that those restrictions will start getting lifted for those who are vaccinated. So people who don’t want to take it will probably have restrictions for longer I’m afraid.
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Because the people who are voluntarily taking the vaccine are taking a calculated risk against their own health and well-being in order to help speed up the process of global recovery from this pandemic. On the flip-side, those refusing to vaccinate are acting selfishly in only their own self-interest, and in turn putting everyone else in society at risk. So ya, the people acting in the interest of society as a whole should enjoy special privileges.
We can argue this until we’re blue in the face. End of the day, guess what? If you think you’re going to not vaccinate but still be able to sit in the crowd at baseball game next summer, or go see your favourite band play, or hop on an airplane to travel for an island vacation… I’ve got a bridge to sell you!
Your favourite band? They’re probably all getting lined up to vaccinate right now so they can get back to touring and making money.
Your favourite baseball team? They’re all getting their proof-of-vaccination cards stamped right now so they can get back to living life outside of the bubble and seeing their families regularly.
The airlines? They can’t wait for everybody to get vaccinated so they can get people back to traveling and they can make money.
Your favourite bar or restaurant you like to frequent? They need society vaccinated ASAP so they can get back to full capacity before they go out of business.
What do all these things have in common? None of them what your unvaccinated ass in their presence causing COVID-19 outbreaks amongst their patrons and fans. You will not be welcome.
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