New WWE Stable

I knew this was coming.

He also gives platforms to people on the far left and let’s them go for two hours. So which one is he?

From what I can tell, Joe is primarily a centrist who believes in free expression of ideas from all corners of the political spectrum. I guess that is “dangerous” to some, but personally I think open dialogue means there’s room for criticism and reflection on ideas.

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Reminds me of how Chris Jericho seemingly doesn’t pick sides but lets Trump Jr go off on tangents to promote his book.

Side note: In 2020 America, there’s NO E X C U S E to give bigots a platform. That’s why centrists can be dangerous. We must all be actively fighting or promoting the fight against fascism/racism that’s so ingrained into the fabric of society. IMO

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The context of that video is Joe Rogan and Tim Poole sitting down with two Twitter execs and asking for definitive rules as to why certain groups are banned from Twitter. Since Proud Boys are banned and Antifa is not, they asked the Twitter execs what the difference was and the Twitter exec explains the hierarchy of both and how they differ, which is quite a bit.

This is why I posted this video because other posters were asking what antifa was and this clip came to mind since she goes into some detail. I did not post this in any way shape or form to endorse the proud boys. Did you watch the clip? I don’t think the title is meant to make any excuses for them. From what I remember, they talk about the origin and how they evolved into what they are today, but I didn’t get the impression that anyone was defending the current incarnation of that group. I sure as hell am not, nor did I at any point in time.

Here is my take, if someone asks me if I like Coke or Pepsi better, I would say Pepsi. Now if said Pepsi but never ever tried Coke, then I’m not really making a choice, I’m blindly saying I like Pepsi.

I like watching Rogan’s podcast because he gives me an opportunity to hear from both sides and make a choice. On Rogan, I’ve listened to David Pakman, Cenk Uygur, Ben Shapiro, and many many more. After listening to all of them, the person I agree with most politically speaking is David Pakman who is a progressive. If I didn’t hear other takes, I don’t feel that I am making an actual decision, and I’d much rather hear the republican take on a show like Rogan’s where they may actually be challenged opposed to the garbage that is FOX News. I’ve never heard a political commentator on Rogan blindly support racism, though I’m by no means Rogan die hard so maybe there are clips I haven’t seen.

I know this is a sensitive topic, so Ill just leave it at that.

I hear you, but I’d rather shut them up with debate then tell some of these commentators they aren’t allowed to speak. When they arent allowed to speak it tends to give them more power via underground movement. I promise, we’re on the same page politically speaking. Racism, Sexism and Bigotry of any kind is unacceptable.

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Insofar as there’s no excuse to give the Grand Wizard of the KKK a platform to explain why lynch mobs are a good idea, I agree. There’s never a reason to provide a platform for someone to spread hate speech or encourage violence against a certain group of people. But I’ve never heard this segment of a Joe Rogan podcast, and I’m not certain any such segment exists.

John and Wai just reviewed Capital Carnage, wherein Vince McMahon made some highly questionable comments regarding Pakistanis, among other seemingly racist remarks. Given that I’d never heard of this before listening to the podcast, are John and Wai now culpable and in agreement with these messages because they “gave him a platform”? How far down the rabbit hole are we willing to go? The CBC gives Justin Trudeau a platform, and that’s a guy who thought wearing blackface was a hilarious joke late into his 20’s. CNN gives Trump a platform every day, and that’s a guy who is actually certifiably racist. So why is Joe Rogan, a guy who makes every effort to bring in a myriad of people with different political and social backgrounds for conversations, held to such a higher standard?

Long story short I think it’s very dangerous to be deplatforming anyone who is assumed to be a “bigot.” All it takes to be labeled a Nazi bootlicker on Twitter is to suggest that maybe while the American police system as a whole has issues with systemic racism, not every individual police officer is a murderous racist.

Just to bring this back to, um, the wrestling side of things…

Didn’t the wrestling news peoples spend weeks telling us that the El Legado del Fantasma was going to be based on some kidnapping terrorist group and then it became…what…just another regular stable? We can probably stop worrying about the based-ons and just see what happens when they unmask and everyone goes back to their NXT characters.

By the way, if we’re always trying to get into the mind of an older, richer man around here, there’s a decent shot it’s something far less insidious than everyone’s trying to make it look like and it’s probably something incredibly basic like “people wearing black who do damage to property” which to a particular side of this country is an INCREDIBLY SCARY FEAR to them…and to everyone else it’s just at most light vandalism. But it’s wrestling, so I figure that 2D-ness to it is far more likely than anything more complicated behind it.

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I agree, I wouldn’t be surprised if Vince has no clue who Antifa even is, and this is like a game of telephone.

Vince: "Ughhh, I want a gang of hoodlums who wear masks and fuck stuff up!!!

Bruce Prichard: “So Vince wants us to create a stable where the members all wear masks, and mess shit up”

Writer 1: “Ok , we need to create a stable where the members all wear masks, have tattoo’s, and mess shit up”

Writer 2 “Ok , we need to create a stable where the members all wear masks, have tattoo’s, look like outcasts and mess shit up”

Writer 3 "Ok , we need to create a stable where the members all wear masks, have tattoo’s, look like outcasts, like an Antifa style of group that you see on TV.

Ryan Satin: WWE is doing a stable based on Antifa.

I Truly wouldn’t be surprised if this is how it transpired.

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I’m glad you posted those videos because they highlight the issue(s) others have mentioned.

For a start, positioning Proud Boys and Antifa in this way like they’re two sides of the same coin is fundamentally stupid and/or dishonest. That’s a massive part of the problem right there. It’s the equivalent of this:

Person A: I’m going to murder this cat
Person B: I’m going to stop you from murdering this cat

Person C: Nothing to see here, both perfectly valid and reasonable opinions. Carry on!

It’s this naive attitude which has played a major part in the rise of the alt-right. It’s literally part of the far-right playbook to take advantage of this very simple and palatable “embrace debate” idea. It’s like the first bullet point on page one.

Even ignoring the ideological differences, ‘Antifa’ is a movement which has existed all over the globe for as long as fascism has. Proud Boys is a specific alt-right group which has existed for a few years. Antifa literally only exists to combat groups like the Proud Boys.

Since the 70’s Antifa vs neo-Nazis has been a battle (literally and figuratively) across the world at demonstrations, punk/ska/hardcore gigs or even just chance encounters in the street. Naturally because of the far right direction America has moved over the last 5 years, Antifa is now more prominent in America too (but they’ve always existed there). This isn’t an attack on you, but the idea that there are people who listen to a fucking Joe Rogan podcast with some “centrist” grifter discussing why people have or haven’t been banned from a social networking website, in order to get an idea about something of this nature is very bad.

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No offense taken, and I hear you. That was the only video I know of that explains the the hierarchy of Antifa.

I see Vice did a piece on them, Ill post that link. I swear if people now tell me that Vice is a far right network I’m never posting anything political again lol.

I haven’t listed to Rewind-A-Wai yet. I would assume if Vince said something problematic during that event, John and Wai would comment on it in reflection of how dated and distasteful it is. I mean, there’s a difference between looking at old content with retrospective and a 2020 lens, versus highlighting it.

Yes, Joe Rogan hasn’t interviewed the Grand Wizard. But Ben Shapiro? Jericho interviewing Trump Jr.? Sure, those guys aren’t actively partaking in cross burnings (that we know of). But, to bring people who have a long history of problematic comments onto your podcast with substantial reach is dangerous. The problems in North America (specifically the US) is in that voices like theirs reaffirm and defend white privilege. ie “All Lives Matter” makes sense to those with white fragility. It affirms “Hey, I’m just as important as anyone else!” Problem? That’s not the point. People like Shapiro or Trump Jr. aren’t going to explicitly show their faces at a klan rally - they are going to use their platform to maintain the status quo. Which in America, is racism, anti-science, and grounded in oppression.

That’s the danger. It’s the same with the police issue you mentioned. People like that twist the “Defund the Police” movement as some idea all cops are bad. While that’s not true, the entire system is bad. Yes, not every cop is out there murdering people, but the issue lies in that, actively partaking in violence or not, the system as a whole allows it. The entire department is culpable. But then, you have the President on Twitter scaring people that “the radical left is taking away the police and you’re in danger!” Again, that’s entirely not the case. And it’s too complex to delve into further, and maybe it’s not entirely appropriate for this forum.

But anyway, yeah, you can make the argument of how deep should it go. I’m not calling to silence anyone who’s done anything wrong. People change, learn, and grow. But, there’s a group of people who will never change and have beliefs grounded in hatred and bigotry. That’s a Ben Shapiro and a Trump Jr. There’s no reasoning, there’s no changing, it’s their way or the highway. They can form any underground movement they want, but when Joe Rogan or Chris Jericho bring notoriously hateful people onto their platform to speak - it only affirms problematic thoughts ingrained into most of the country. I don’t think that deserves a platform. Liberal, conservative, whatever - there’s simply people who have dangerous thoughts that prevent a long overdue change, and I think we know there’s a fundamental difference between a Ben Shapiro and a Justin Trudeau, regardless of the past. Even this week Kevin Steen was in controversy from comments 17 years ago. I’m not the right person to ask if he should be forgiven or should/shouldn’t be punished. But, he’s a different person now. He’s grown and changed. Yet, there’s people who haven’t and won’t.

I do sincerely apologize to anyone uncomfortable with a bit of a political rant. I won’t indulge further. Please, talk shop. I’ll mosey on out.

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I don’t need an excuse to share this song, but writing this post has really got me in the mood.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5SYjoZsLQE

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Thinking Joe Rogan is dangerous is ridiculous in my opinion. He just talks to people with differing perspectives and that’s great. I don’t like some of the guests he has on but I don’t think you can have an “I’m against people being so divided” mindset while also having an “If they don’t have my same outlook then they should be shut down” mindset. You’re the problem if you do. It’s a very social media, fake woke, intellectually lazy, corwardly way of dealing with things. Rogan is mostly left leaning as well, it’s just that he doesn’t see conservatives as automatically being terrible people that must be viewed as the enemy.

In conclusion, the Joe Rogan podcast is great and thankfully it’s one of the most successful podcasts in the world.

Please defend Ben Shapiro as a guest to me.

All I read is “Joe Rogan is great because he makes me feel good about being set in my ways.”

While I don’t have an issue with people like Trump Jr. or Shapiro being allowed on podcasts like Rogan’s or Jericho’s for the reasons I already stated, I think that the what you are saying comes from good place, and I wish more people had this type of mind set.

I feel the main issue in the US right now is that everything has just become so divisive. You have two sides that paint the other as evil and use very manipulative tactics to convince people to join their side.

I posted this in another thread, but I live in Canada, and in my core group of friends, there are conservatives, NDP’s, and Liberals (I am personally Liberal), and we all get a long great, no issues. I feel like that couldnt happen in the US right now which is really sad.

In the US there is just so much hatred, its really gotten ugly. I guess my overall position is that you need the two sides to begin to come inward otherwise the fucking country is going to have a civil war. Unfortunately you have a president right now who tries to divide and is just taking things to an all time low. Then you have people on other side playing dirty as well and it just gets ugly.

I think this is why I feel so strongly about the podcast thing. I feel that by banning right wing speakers, you are essentially pouring gas on a fire, I would prefer to use water.

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Ben Shapiro has different perspectives, he’s being interviewed on those perspectives. That’s pretty much it.

You don’t have to agree with what’s said. That seems to be something people don’t understand. It’s not all about having your own opinion fed to you.

“Talking is bad. One side needs to die.”

That’s the mentality of crazy people on both the left and the right unfortunately.

This is nothing personal - we’ve spoken before, I just think it’s a naive perspective to “hear them out.” I don’t think it lights gas to extinguish the platform of harmful speakers in society.

Race aside. Mask wearing. It’s necessary. It’s scientifically proven to slow spread, we all need to wear masks. Joe Rogan jokes and said “only bitches wear face masks.” He’s got a huge platform. And people who agree with this take? The Shapiros, the Trumps, that side of the political spectrum.

People are much dumber than given credit for. Joe Rogan saying you look like a bitch because you’re being mindful of others threatens the toxic masculinity of a lot of his base. He normalizes making mask wearing seem like a weakness. Then the rhetoric spreads to people who were on the fence, but now have Joe Rogan to reaffirm them. And now we are all paying for that. Rogan isn’t solely responsible, but it’s an example.

That needs to stop. You’d agree we need to eliminate the platform people have that advocates masks are some infringement on “freedom.” That’s my point. To highlight those who endanger us is wrong. To me at least. Again, just my perspective. Not a personal thing

Okay I promise I’m done.

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Ugghhh I didnt hear that one, I dont listen to Rogan that often. I more so check him out from time to time.

I guess my preference is to shut them up and make them look like idiots. I see what you are saying though, slippery slope.

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No offence but you’re coming across as extremely ignorant to his opinion on masks. It’s as if you’ve only paid attention to what the crazy, scavenging to be offended types have said on twitter.

He does poke fun at people that get mad at someone across the street not wearing a mask or someone in their own car not wearing a mask (and rightly so) but other than that he’s not really against it. You’d be able to get that if you listened to a few podcasts where he talks about it. You should also remember that it is just a couple of people talking which means there will also be some fooling around.

It’s just a relaxed discussion between 2 people about random shit from week to week. If that offends people then I think those people need help to stop being wrapped so tightly.