It’s Dr. Pepper…if we’re going to use brand names get it right.
If DR. PEPPER…says they are a carbonated drink…they shouldn’t add alcohol to it and tell me otherwise.
That’s it fella, you keep doing you.
Suzuki vs. Goto was literally announced as a Death Match, hence No DQ.
You’ll find with most Japanese wrestling the ref is far more lenient than you’ll see elsewhere. A ref is required to count the pin and to discourage the breaking of rules, however they will rarely call for a DQ (and will avoid count-outs as much as possible) because they want the contest to end in a definitive manner. The way the Japanese book their shows is quite different to the way American’s book and the way the British book and the way Mexican’s book, etc, etc… you can’t apply everything you see in one organisation to another and expect it to fit perfectly.
DQ’s and count-out’s do happen but for important feuds and matches the referee’s are characterised as preferring to ensure a finish that shows a winner and loser, rather than making sure every single rule is followed verbatim so that the match ends without a conclusive decision.
It doesn’t necessarily translate to the “presented as a real sport” analogy or the “rules are the same universally” thought process because it’s not really about either; it’s simply how the New Japan (and to a certain extent, all Japanese companies) booking works.
A referee is not a competitor and therefore is disposable in the grand scheme of things. Better to have the ref look stupid than the wrestler.
Suzuki didn’t call for Suzuki-gun to come out though, and when he realised they were there and were attempting to save him from fulfilling the promise he’d made before the match, he was angered; Suzuki is definitely a dick, but he’s a dick who gives a shit about upholding his reputation as a man of his word - he lost, he was gonna shave his head.
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Suzuki/Goto was a death match? First I’m hearing it…sure didn’t hear that from the commentary. Maybe Cyrus was too busy trying to get himself over and Kelly was too busy acting offended by everything like he’s Ryan Satin on twitter to tell the viewers at home.
Whatever, who was I to question anything Japanese…Pen Pineapple Pen is up there with the Beatles, Anime is high class movies and not simply cartoons and wrestlers don’t look stupid…the refs do…that must mean Davey Boy Smith Jr was actually doing something genius when he stopped the 20 count that would’ve had them beating Sanada and EVIL. 
You’re literally not even making sensible arguments any more and you’re even going around to other threads talking about this argument. This has gone too far and needs to stop. I recommend if you’re such a purist that you watch actual competitions like MMA or boxing because that seems to be more your speed.
Nice…now its the “go watching something else” trope.
Well, he may not have called for Suzuki-gun, but it’s not like he didn’t want to capitalize on the interference, it was YOSHI-HASHI (of all people) who sent Taichi & Co. away and the distraction pretty much set up the awesome dropkick by Suzuki.
So in the end Suzuki shaved his head and accepted the result (which was pretty shocking to me), but it’s not like he was this honorable man throughout the match.
I agree that certain gimmicks can enhance the story (cage, ladder) but I’m okay without too many matches like that. Sometimes the American influence feels like it’s creeping in a little too much. But it’s helping their growth.
Oh look, it’s the ‘Im too stubborn to acknowledge that different cultures have different ways of presenting things so I’ll turn the arguement into a guilt trip about me’ trope.
the irony of the phrasing here.
“I know you are, but what am I?” - Deezy, Jan 2018.
Well Suzuki is a heel after all. He has literally always been a heel for the decades I have been watching the man wrestle. Accept apparently in Pancreas he was a babyface? (I’ve not watched any of his Pancreas stuff). So he will of course do heelish things like cheat, not do clean breaks, accept help from his seconds (or thirds or fourths) but he is a man of his word. Its difficult to really explain but this was a quintessentially japanese match in many ways which is why the crowd at the Dome loved it so much.
Did he even see Suzuki-gun outside the ring? I don’t remember.
From memory, he was downed at the time and capitalised on something he was unaware of… not that it matters, because he’s a heel and Suzuki-gun are a group of heels, and have been the entire time.
The thing is, you’re problem with it seemed to be that Suzuki called them out and used them to win - except neither of those things happened; they came out of their own accord and were stopped before they could influence the outcome, Suzuki lost and when he saw his group were attempting to get him away from the ring and keep his hair on his head he pushed them away, admonished them and returned to shave his head. He’s a heel but he honoured every promise he made before the match.
First of all, I don’t have a problem with heels doing heelish things.
I never said that Suzuki called his stablemates for help. I said that it wasn’t like he wasn’t going to capitalize on their interference, even though he didn’t call for them. You could see Goto being distracted by the intermezzo between Taichi and YOSHI-HASHI and Suzuki crawling to Goto to put him in the RNC. So yeah, he certainly saw his stablemates outside the ring, why else would Goto turn his back on him?
I’m not all too familiar with the Japanese culture and don’t know why Suzuki returned to the ring and shaved his head. But since it was a match that had the stipulation that neither of their respective teammates were allowed to interfere and Suzuki seemingly knew that Suzuki-gun was around, it’s kinda weird that Suzuki suddenly turns around and accepts his punishment.
He doesn’t need to have seen Taichi and the others to take advantage of Goto’s back being turned. We’ve seen it a million times in WWE when a face takes advantage of a distracted opponent only to realise later that there was interference or shenanigans and they felt remorseful for it.
As for why Suzuki went back, I took it as him being a man of his word, which is why I feel like he mustn’t have seen Suzuki-gun earlier on. Seeing it this way, it makes sense, whereas (by your own admission) seeing it your way, doesn’t. I reckon you should just see it my way, you’ll like it more. 
Except, it’s the usual shenanigans. This has been his gimmick for how long?
It’s hard for me to understand Suzuki suddenly being a man of his word when all he did is cheat his way to victory. Maybe the stipulation has a higher value than I think or it’s just part of the Japanese culture.
Well the Suzuki Gun gimmick is relatively new for him. He’s been a top heel for like I said more than a decade. His time in NOAH he was a heel just as now just he was a heel on his own. But as you said,. its a bit of a cultural thing. You obviously didn’t really get the significance of the hair and how it relates to honor in japanese culture. Which is fair, you aren’t japanese. But here’s the thing though, I guarantee you listened to the commentary. If you did, the commentary very clearly stated the importance of the hair and even went so far as to illustrate why Suzuki went back. So my question is, did you have the commentary off? Cause everything we’ve been telling you here is what KK and Don Callus said.
I watched it with English commentary, but since English is my second language, I’m not focusing on it all the time (even though I very much enjoy the dynamic duo). I can imagine what meaning a shaven head might have in Japan, but there is still a culture barrier that’s hard to cross, especially when the one (KK) who’s telling you about it, doesn’t even live in Japan. But it’s a general problem I have. If Chris Charlton would have told me about it, I have an easier time getting into it. That’s not a knock on KK.
I don’t have a problem with Suzuki going back, maybe it’s just the influence from all of the American wrestling that makes me think that heels have to be heels all the time and don’t have any sense of pride and honor. Off the top of my head I remember a kiss-my-ass match (which might be of an equal level of embarrassment) between Sheamus and Ziggler, where Ziggler won, but Sheamus kicked Ziggler low and made him kiss his (Sheamus) ass. That’s a typical heel move and that’s why I was “irritated” that Suzuki goes back and shaves his head even though he could have left.
Maybe it’s just me but I feel like there’s a difference between cheating to win and taking your punishment like you promised you would. While I don’t feel like Suzuki did try to cheat to win the match, I can understand why you would feel like that, given his past record; however, this was the first time he’d said that he’d have no seconds and that should Goto beat him (which he felt would never happen) he wouldn’t only win the title but Suzuki would also give up his hair - Suzuki will happily bend the rules during a match to stay on top but Goto proved himself the better man and Minoru Suzuki, legendary wrestler and shoot fighter respected that.
From what Kevin Kelly said (and I have no reason to not believe him) shaving your head in public in Japan is seen as an act of attrition and a way to make up for past sins. In the context of this match I felt like Suzuki felt he had to live up to his promise before the match because he’d given Goto so much shit about never being able to beat him and in doing so, he’d earned his respect.
Maybe I’m adding layers where there are none, but that’s how I saw it.