NXT TakeOver XXX: Lee vs. Cross, Cole vs. McAfee, Shirai vs. Kai

Any issues with the stuff that was actually his doing?

He didnt look good at all. This is the problem with the guy, its exactly what I saidā€¦he is all big moves and when he doesnt do those big moves, he doesnt have much else and it is incredibly boring.

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lol you sound like the guy whoā€™s team just lost 1 playoff game and is screaming ā€œTOLD YOU, ITS OVER!!!ā€.

It was one night, people are way over the top about this.

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The problem is Vince loves the guy too much and wanted to change everything to ā€œhelp him outā€.

It was a complete disaster but none of it was Leeā€™s fault. Itā€™s no surprise, itā€™s the same thing that happened to the Viking Raiders, Ricochet, Alastair Black, etc, etc.

Itā€™s why I canā€™t get into NXT as much anymore - none of it matters!

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Wrestlers make their main roster debut, then ā€œpay their duesā€ and then get their run as if the last few weeks never happened. Itā€™s always been a dumb system, and itā€™s even dumber now with the majority of the new faces coming from WWEā€™s own brand and not another promotion.

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I would like to be optimistic on this one. If he screws him up like Ricochet or Matt Riddle, well then thatā€™s too bad.

Yeah good point about Riddle. Completely forgot about him because they have made him into just another guy very fast.

Heā€™s just a wacky guy who doesnā€™t wear shoes now. Awesome

Iā€™ve argued for a while that WWE NXT actively hurts guys debuting on the main roster. In the past if guys had a big change from OVW we would never really know, now we expect one thing and get something different. Further we expect guys to be ā€œtop guysā€ and when they arenā€™t it is disappointing. If they framed NXT as the minors it would be better, but they need a consistent presentation when they get called up. Change guys later on if you want to but not immediately when they are called up.

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Iā€™ve been saying this for years.

Why anybody invests fandom into NXT is beyond me. Unless it becomes a final destination for talent, then the exact same cycle will continueā€¦

  • Will respected and loved indie talent comes to NXT
  • Talent puts on incredible performances. People respond to the talent and what brought them to NXT.
  • Talent becomes one of the top people in NXT.
  • Talent wins and loses the NXT Championship.
  • Talent ends up on Raw or Smackdown. Fans show some initial concern, but willing to see how it plays out.
  • On occasion, talent gets a big win or showing against an established top level talent, to show they can hang with the important people on the roster.
  • Within a month, talent is just another guy or gal on the roster, filling a spot. Main roster booking totally ignored what made them special and unique, and talent is now filling a role for anybody, rather than creating a spot for them.
  • Within a year, theyā€™re settled into the undercard - midcard, being a warm body. Maybe they get a big match here or there, but little of what brought them to the company remains and nobody beyond their original fans will every get behind them.

Literally dozens of examples.

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Its actually the opposite. Being a Red Sox fan, I remember I was probably the only one who felt like they were going to come back to beat the Yankees, when they were down 3 games to none. Iā€™m optimistic when there is reason to be.

Iā€™ve seen enough WWE in my life time, to not be stupid anymore with them.

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I have generally liked NXT for its own merits and havenā€™t cared much about the main roster. I havenā€™t been into it as much lately because I think since they went to USA there has been creep away from telling good long term stories leading to great matches, to just hit shorting ā€œdreamā€ matches for ratings. NXT gives WWE a great platform to tell long term stories but they donā€™t use it at all.

As to use on the main roster I generally agree, they wonā€™t routinely beat established talent to establish new talent.

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Couldnā€™t you have said the same thing about ECW? People who like NXT watch it because the product entertains them. If you stopped watching main roster I get it, but if you JUST watched NXT, I fail to see the issue.

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Look, Iā€™m not saying they wonā€™t botch him, but you canā€™t make snap judgments after one night good or bad. Nobody is going to not get over because of the reasons that people are fuming over Leeā€™s debut. If he doesnt get over, it will be because of bad booking.

His facial expressions, his cadence when he talks, his whole look. They all get a thumbs down from me. His entrance music is generic but thatā€™s actually an improvement on what it was before. His whole presentation is indie level in my opinion.

In the ring, heā€™s great for the most part. Everything else is not good.

I also donā€™t get this idea of ā€œif itā€™s not the final destination then who caresā€. ROH was/is a stepping stone, so was every other promotion that isnā€™t WWE, doesnā€™t mean itā€™s somehow impossible to figure out why they were popular.

No doubt NXT is a developmental brand (or 50% a developmental brand) but itā€™s the only different style of show out there to main roster WWE. And it stays the most fresh because the wrestlers on top arenā€™t there long enough to get stale. New wrestlers constantly coming into the main event is a good thing. One of the reasons WWE main roster gets stale is the lack of change. Being the final destination really hasnā€™t helped their product now has it?

It just seems like contrived criticism thatā€™s been newly developed just to have a go at NXT.

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Tonightā€™s NXT just got a lot more ā€œunopposedā€.