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Wai Ting & John Pollock are joined by Brent Chittenden (True North Nerds) & Nate Milton (Kings of Sport) for a special roundtable discussion about the epic conclusion to Marvel Studios’ Infinity Saga, Avengers: Endgame (2019).
Time heists, 5 Year Jumps, Cap grabbing Mjolnir and more… our hosts engage in a 2hr 30min podcast discussion about the film featuring the concluding story arcs of Iron Man and Captain America.
Plus, they celebrate the best (and worst) of the MCU as they present THE FEIGES:
Adrift in space with no food or water, Tony Stark sends a message to Pepper Potts as his oxygen supply starts to dwindle. Meanwhile, the remaining Avengers — Thor, Black Widow, Captain America and Bruce Banner — must figure out a way to bring back their vanquished allies for an epic showdown with Thanos — the evil demigod who decimated the planet and the universe.
Awesome show. I’m not sure I’ve enjoyed watching a movie in theatres as much as I enjoyed my experience watching endgame. The comparison to watching a sports game, where everybody is rooting for the same team, was apt.
Looking forward to the Far from Home review! As much as I like Ironman, Thor and Captain America; I will always associate Marvel first and foremost with Spider-Man, and in a lot of ways, the MCU’s interpretation of the character is the closest we’ve gotten to the OG Lee/Ditko version thus far.
Could use a bit more Hero by Chad Kroeger & Josey Scott though…
Thanks for the fantastic Endgame round table and all the MCU reviews. Really appreciated.
However, I almost spit out my drink when John & Wai thought Tony Stark/Iron Man was the biggest babyface in the MCU. From a kayfabe/character perspective only, outside of Thanos, Tony Stark could be the biggest overarching heel in the MCU too. The answer probably is that he’s somewhere in the middle I think.
His character is arrogant, irrational, disloyal, manipulative and dishonest. He is directly or indirectly responsible for multiple villains (Ultron, Mysterio, Vulture, Killian, Zemo) and takes little if any responsibility for it and leaves it for everyone to clean up his mess. He manipulates a teenager to go to Europe to fight his battle and hangs him out to dry afterward leaving him to fight a villain that he essentially created in Vulture. He turns his back on his closest allies Hawkeye & Black Widow because his guilt outweighs friendship? What? Apparently fighting alongside him in Sokovia and New York mean nothing. He cannot resolve that a brainwashed Bucky killed his parents. Instead he flies into a blind rage fighting Cap and even when he loses and Cap spares his life, he’s still flippant about it. Calls out the Mandarin on tv by telling the world his address and therefore jeopardizing Pepper’s life. I’d love to keep going but I think that’s too much as it is.
Meanwhile, there’s Cap who, to him, threw his life away to save the world by crashing his plane ages ago. Widow gives up her life to get the stone. Both of these events are on par with Stark’s sacrifice, but those are under rug swept. Sorry, let’s stop everything for Stark’s death because…he’s more charismatic I guess? Showing dinkish tendencies forever and doing the right in the end should not and does not make you a better babyface than someone doing the right thing the right way all along.
Tony Stark’s character is complicated with an excellent balance of both positive traits and character flaws. But a Feige award winner for best babyface he is not.
Anyway, just my 2 cents (which is about what it’s worth).
Looking forward to the Far From Home review (which seems like the encore after a concert setlist or something) to put a bow on an awesome run. Thanks again for the reviews,
Part of what makes Tony such an engaging character, is that he always believes he is doing the right thing, even when he’s in the wrong (like Age of Ultron, or Civil War). That is a trait he shares with most of the best villains in the MCU, but what continuously separates Tony from those types of villains, is that he is someone who is capable of admitting when he was in the wrong, and Tony ultimately works to repair his mistakes. These are mistakes that are continuously born out of a paranoia that stems from the otherworldly threats that are introduced post-avengers one. Basically, when Tony steps into antagonist territory, it’s kind of coming from a misguided babyface perspective, as opposed to a heel one. These moments are in my opinion, what gives him so much strength and complexity as a character, and lends credence to the case for him as the ultimate babyface of these first three phases of the MCU. It’s not unalike pro-wrestling, where fans often prefer babyfaces with a bit of an edge to white-meat babyfaces, ala Captain America.
That all being said, I agree with you! Captain America is my pick for top babyface as well. John pointed out that unlike most protagonists, Steve’s character arc resembles a straight line more so then an arc, and I honestly found that refreshing. Throughout the Captain America and Avengers movies, Steve certainly grows as a character, but he keeps the ideals he has from his first appearance until his last. As such, instead of Steve changing, its the people around him who change, and I think that was his greatest strength as a character. His impact on characters like Tony and Natasha, is what makes him such a strong protagonist. He’s an idealist, but he’s not portrayed as a naive idiot, which is something I think we could all use more of. In these movies, he’s really what Superman should be for the DCU, but they haven’t quite figured that out yet.
Awesome perspective and definitely agree with a lot of your points for sure. I think you hit the nail on the head about Stark’s motivations being a key to his character and why it’s so interesting. It gets murky really fast. If his motivation is to protect the world or make things right but leads to his flawed character traits (disloyalty, dishonesty, irrationality) making things worse, does that motivation matter? I don’t know. It reminds me a little of Owen turning on Bret. History remembers Bret as the baby face turned on by his jealous brother. But ultimately, in that story, Owen was right. For the greater good, Bret should’ve tagged out. Whatever his motivation for not tagging Owen, as well intentioned as it may have been, didn’t matter. They lost. Tony Stark’s character reminds me a little bit of Bret Hart in that match.
My definition of a “babyface” is someone who is generally portrayed to be on the side of good; someone who the audience is meant to relate to. Of that bunch, Tony Stark presented the most compelling story arc and performance from his actor.
Steve is the most morally infallible character, but that wasn’t my criteria for the Feige.
In the same vain, I didn’t necessarily think Killmonger was the most “evil” character in the MCU, but he was the villain I enjoyed the most.
You and @Celticy make fantastic points, however. Appreciate the discussion.
Nor was Thanos in Infinity War. This is what you get when you have well written characters - a compelling story. I was actually sympathizing with both.
This was a really great show, well done and thanks to all four of you for a fantastic discussion.
I have to say though, as a UK listener the thought of cinema audiences cheering and clapping gives me heart palpitations. Absolutely none of that on our shores!
