Completely understand that as well. Where I have my issue is when certain “fans” harshly judge and criticize these performers for the decisions they make.
But not everyone is an artist. It’s fine to be a good at something, to be a craftsman (craftsperson). Not every athlete is artistic, obviously
I just think a lot of wrestlers underestimate their value and potential worth. Ziggler has a part of WWE for 16 years - most wrestling careers period don’t last that long.
Daniel Bryan has been in WWE for 11 years, Cesaro for nine.
I don’t feel like anyone should stay in one company or territory for that long unless they’re the top guy. In Zigglers case, can you imagine in the year 2000 having a guy who debuted in that same company in 1984 main event a PPV?
There is a lot of money to be made in wrestling and it’s just disappointing when people don’t take a chance on themselves when they’re hot. Vince will always, always take guys back
There is a lot of money to be made but for the last 20 years that money has largely been in WWE. You can say take a chance when your hot. But you are also saying take a pay cut while you are healthy. Longevity is not a given.
As to the longevity yeah I can imagine that because it has happened a ton. Especially in more recent years. But take Hogan debut in 83 headlining in 93.
Look at Randy Orton now, or John Cena.
I just never get the attitude that guys making 6 figures should take a 50% pay cut to go be a star.
It might work out for some guys, but for most you are giving away your top earnings years to be a “star”.
I put keeping guys around who are stuck way more on the company than on the performers.
I mean it is like saying “hey D1 college football coach at a mid level program.” Why don’t you go coach this D2 national powerhouse for half the money. Most people would think that is crazy. I’m not saying no one should do it, just that I understand when guys don’t.
Not to mention, one reason why a select few have success doing this (ie. Cody) is because not many do it. If wrestlers took these types of chances in bunches, most would likely end up mid carders in places like TNA, or end up jumping around on the indys. Sure it may have worked for Ziggler, but with all due respect, does anyone think it would have worked for Ryder or Hawkins for example? Did it work for Shelton Benjamin?
I think it’s unfair to lump all these guys together. We don’t know them personally or what they have or haven’t gone through backstage. I mean, Cesaro has never come off to me as a complacent guy. And the comment suggesting Daniel Bryan just settled in feels a bit outrageous, too. Bryan isn’t a huge ego guy, he more so focuses on helping others later in his career. All of these wrestlers need independent context.
Also for Dolph…the comment section for the most part seems not totally off base. I honestly think Dolph was beaten into submission backstage and now he doesn’t really care. He won a world title and had a peak. He’s never been a promo guy, he’s not a body guy…and he gets paid really well. Why go? I wouldn’t. When Drew left he needed to prove something. Dolph really doesn’t. Totally sensible to take the paycheck if it’s there and you’re closer to the end of your career than in front of it.
What’s wrong with guys settling in or just being happy to be there? If someone offered me a bunch more money to do less work at my job, I’d be stupid not to do it.
End of the day someone like Daniel Bryan might just be happy to help guys like Gulak or Shorty G have great matches and slowly move up the card themselves. If Cesaro never has an extended championship run, who cares? As fans we might feel they deserve to be at the top of the card, but if that’s not important to them then it’s not our place to judge. They’re getting paid top dollar to do what they love most, and half the time they don’t have to do anything at all. Sounds like a sweet gig to me.
There is a lot of money elsewhere and you also have the chance to do outside projects - less wear and tear on the body.
The longevity thing is purely a modern day WWE phenomenon, which is weird. They don’t have any concrete plans with talent but more so don’t want them going anywhere else. Wrestlers creatively aren’t supposed to be in the same company doing the same thing for as long as Dolph or the other guys mentioned.
Hogan wasn’t on tv weekly when he was on top. Just think of how many ziggler matches we have seen during his run. It’s mind blowing and he is still basically in the same position.
I argue it’s worth it for any talent to at least try. Look at Jinder Mahal - he got on the gas after he got released and got a title run and a huge push. Why don’t more guys try that?
Cesaro should have left as soon as possible whenever Vince talked about him on the Austin podcast. He needed to go away and come back because Vince will not change his mind.
That was like six years ago and nothing about the way he’s slotted in the company has changed. He’s probably worse off now
Agree with everything you said. I think what some fans do is they project their personal feelings onto the wrestlers. The fans themselves want to see the wrestler in AEW, NJPW etc. so they begin to take personal shots at the wrestlers for not doing what they want which is ridiculous.
I mean, the problem with Cesaro is he can’t talk. They made it worse by making him speak with a mouth guard in for two years. But, they did try with him pretty early on. Obviously they butchered the presentation and didn’t accentuate strengths, but it’s similar to why Ricochet is doomed.
I’m not defending WWE. If you’ve ever seen me on here, my thoughts and viewing habits (none) are pretty clear how I feel. It’s just odd to group a bunch of guys together and say they’re complacent. Cesaro probably makes good money, he’s not booked horribly, and his inability to cut a promo hurt his chances. It just happens. Why do the Indy cycle for anything besides creative freedom? I’m sure he’s proud of what he’s done, and I’m sure at times he’s been frustrated. But money talks.
Ok let me ask you this. Do you think Dolph is Kenny Omega level? Because he makes almost as much as Kenny got paid as one of the top guys in NJPW at the top of his run. Sorry but that level of money just hasn’t been out there for nearly as many guys industry wide vs in WWE. Looking up wrestler pay the industry average is around $50k, the WWE average. Average for WWE (main roster I assume not NXT) is 10 times that much. So what you are basically saying is that WWE guys should risk a significant other cut to try to earn more. That is a huge risk.
100% agree with you.
Wrestlers (all athletes for that matter) know that at any given time their career’s could be cut short. Most have a very small window to make as much money as they can to last them as long as they can so they don’t become like some of the sad cases we have seen in the past. Sure some can continue their careers as agents, bookers, managers etc. but the majority are out of the industry for the most part once they retire. The idea of working the indy’s or being a mid carder in a place like Impact, MLW etc. for a fraction of what they make in WWE when they have families that depend on them is truly ludicrous.
Now if they choose to go that route, all the power to them and I wish them the best of luck. However no fan should be mad at a wrestler or taking shots at a wrestler for making a decision to provide for their families.
I’ll never understand this criticism of Cesaro.
Dude was really entertaining back in his Chikara days. Yes, he has an accent, but he’s a super charismatic and entertaining guy on the mic when given the opportunity. He has never been given the opportunity to show off this side of himself in WWE.
Also, the reason he isn’t likely going anywhere us due to his wife’s position within NXT / the Performance Center.
I had no idea that Cesaro was married to Sara Del Rey. That makes sense then, I know couples can work in different companies (ie. Renae/Moxley) but I cant imagine its easy with those schedules.
I disagree. He can talk just fine, but most people sound stupid with WWE writing.
Cesaro could have easily went elsewhere, became a bigger name and demanded more money from WWE. Look at Mahal and McIntyre. They both left and have both been slotted above him
I don’t see it as a big risk if they are truly talented. Some guys just need to step away from WWE and make Vince forget they existed.
Then when he sees them again they can be given a brand new chance. Guys like Mahal and McIntyre for example. They have both been treated better than Ziggler, Cesaro, Ryder, etc.
Cesaro probably sneezed or Vince didn’t like the way his neck looked and that’s all he will think of him until he steps away for a while and reinvents himself. Otherwise he will just do midcard stuff like he has been forever
My only experience with Cesaro is his WWE run. So, if he had a reputation for being a promo guy back then, fair enough. I can only evaluate what I’ve personally seen.
I have never seen him cut a promo that screamed main event or even upper mid card. There’s usually a glimmer of something - a WWE Chronicle, a WWE dot com interview…just something.
Example, Mustafa Ali’s Raw promo this week was poor, but that’s WWE speak stifling him. We all know how good he is with free reign. I’ve just never seen Cesaro do it. Nothing to do with the accent. That’s a dumb reason for management to not consider someone.
WWE speak and inauthentic writing is a major issue with the company. I’ve talked about it a lot and agree. Again, I have zero desire to invest my time in it because of it. I can just only comment on what I’ve seen.
At the same time, it’s been 8 years on the main roster with opportunities here and there, trips to NXT, etc. Yeah, he doesn’t get a lot of opportunity and based on work rate alone, he deserves more. All I can say is I don’t think it’s translated.
Also, for the past 20 years, what other North American company has been around? TNA? They had issues with actually paying people. ROH was barely on tv. The indy scene wasn’t nearly as big 10, 15 years ago. WWE was the only game in town.
When TNA was on Spike they had no money issues. And by the time they stared having issues, ROH was paying guys more and the indies were hotter. Japan has always been an option and now Europe has emerged as a hot market. There are always options for talented people.
Another example is a guy like Christian who was stuck in midcard hell, went to TNA and finally got a title run and more opportunities