Rewind-A-Dynamite 8/5/20: Jericho-Cassidy Debate, Nick Khan-WWE, Raw Ratings

There have also been DQ’s in cage matches as well along with rope breaks (in a no DQ match like a cage match).

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That’s called bad booking and nothing to do with the ref.

I think some of the criticism above (from several posters) is universal regardless of promotion or era. But I think some of it is more warranted for AEW and their supposed “sports-like presentation”. At this point, that might just be a long-gone buzzword, but if “sports-like” is what they’re going for, then for me personally, having time limits and a set of rankings that don’t seem to mean much really don’t satisfy that claim.

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I saw this thread was pretty active. Haven’t read all the posts, but it seems a lot of discussion is on AEW ref credibility?

I’ll say this much - if AEW still wants tout themselves as more “realistic,” they need a public rulebook and structure. It is clear a lot of people there (particularly tag teams) engage in a bit of a free-for-all.

The debate doesn’t arise in WWE because people have long given up on WWE caring about what they put out. I’m sure AEW fans just want defined structure and have higher expectations for a company that does a bit of a better job listening.


These back slap tags are just sloppy and lazy. I’m really disappointed that FTR are already being brought down to the level of the other teams. That 12 man tag match was a horrible mess. They just seem incapable of executing a tag-team pro-wrestling match.

… and it went over 1 mil viewers.

Also, don’t forget one very important thing: FTR are always on the curve to be heels. And what (classic) heels often do? They are hypocrites. They’ll talk to you about the rules in your face and break them behind your back to get advantage at every possible chance they have.

Wrestling is simple. Don’t overthink it.


Someone criticised AEW on this forum? That was never going to go down well…

Just say everything in WWE is terrible and the whole company needs to burn to the ground. That’s reasonable analysis.

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I could care if it got 10 million viewers. It doesn’t change the fact it was a mess.

I don’t really agree with the commenter you responded to, but I think “Wrestling is simple. Don’t overthink it.” is a dangerous philosophy to have.

I see it a lot on WWE social media. “Stop being mad, it’s just wrestling.” Stuff like that. I feel like those people (not you) are essentially telling me to turn my brain off. All TV shows need to be accountable for logical storytelling. It’s how shows maintain an audience - the best programming rewards the viewer for the time they invest.

Again, I’m not really on board with the person you are responding too. But, FTR have always been sticklers for the rules. Yeah, they can win by underhanded tactics, but they’re big on the tag rope and structure in their matches…

I’m just not huge on saying not to overthink it. People can reach for sure, and I’m not sure if he is (I’m not reading everything), but that’s always something that bugs me.

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I think the reason you hear about it with AEW is due to a few things
1.). They made a point of changing some rules, and then don’t enforce those rules. WWE is pretty bad with counts as well (especially count outs but also on tags) but AEW made a point of extending the time, only to break that.
2.) Commentary points it out. JR mostly continues to point out that people aren’t following the rules. If you are just going to let it slide, then do that and don’t draw attention to it unless doing so is part of the story where someone gained an unfair advantage. Heck they have FTR now with a gimmick that they follow the tag rules.

Generally I don’t have a huge issue with it, but I wish they would do better, otherwise a tornado tag is just a tag.

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Those are two totally different things.

Where I was coming from is the fact that in it’s foundations wrestling is “bad guys” fighting “good guys”. FTR were heels during their entire time in the WWE, everybody expected them to come as a heel team in AEW. The story about it came from a different angle and they are now playing buddy-buddies with one of the biggest babyface act in AEW - the Young Bucks. They have won their trust, and also the trust of the tag team champions, whilst also turning into a catalyst to divide them - they drink booze with one (Paige) all the time, while Kenny gets irritated about it, cause he does not drink alcohol. You can see gears turning even if you don’t pay really close attention. Than you have Arn Anderson who is now their… consultant, manager? Something. Arn who is part of Cody’s Nightmare Family. How long has been he’s been affiliated with the Elite group on TV? If you ask me, something’s brewing and it is not that hard to figure what it will be and yes, it is not that hard to figure it out. Unless we get swerved, but I’m pretty damn sure I’ll be fine if all this leads to the cross point all the hints point to thus far.

You can THINK about it, but do not overthink it, cause if you start overthink it and put more and more layers over it - at some point you’ll get absolutely lost (and by “you” I mean both we as viewers and “them” as storytellers), you’ll change direction and stumble at the finish line (if not crash and burn just before it).

So, FTR being “sticklers” for the rules is making them even more of a dastardly heels when they break them during their matches. It’s that simple.

“Stop being mad, it’s just wrestling.” is another topic, but in general, when you’ve watched it all of your life and some demented old fool is destroying his company in front of your eyes with glaringly STUPID decisions (eye for an eye matches, DQs in HiaC matches, burying young talent left and right, ninjas, ANTIFA ninjas with chainsaws etc. etc.), I think you are allowed to get at least a bit mad.

Again, complaining about the ref in wrestling? Shit, ref’s in real sports mess up calls.

FFS. This is the last comment I am making on this. I don’t know wtf you believe wrestling is but let me make it clear. It is meant to be a worked fight. That is the basis if the whole “sport”.

You can say it has changed but it hasn’t. If you don’t accept that concept then you are acknowledging it is just choreographed gymnastics because what else would be the point of doing moves on your opponent.

Accepting the basic concept it is a competitive fight means there needs to be rules. And if there are rules then those rules need to be enforced. If they aren’t then the whole premise falls apart and it becomes fn stupid. It also removes a key component available to heels to get heat and a finish.

And people complain about that too. There is also a difference between missed calls, and disregarding a rule being the norm. A missed call in wrestling is the ref not seeing a foot on the ropes, or a tag being made. It is not blatantly not counting for double teams or count outs. Using American football as an example things like missing a tag being made is like failing to call pass interference, not counting is akin to ignoring the play clock. Now because it is being counted by a human there can be a little leeway, but guys are in way too long all the time. Which if that is the style you want cool, but then don’t draw attention to it by mentioning the rule all the freaking time.

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Two Words: The 'Rona.

I’d take all wrasslin’ ratings with a grain of salt until 2021.

The fact that AEW/WWE haven’t lost MORE viewers is a minor miracle. :100:

It’s sports entertainment, no matter how much you want to deny it.

Well you may as well get rid of referees altogether as they serve no purpose. But it’s no longer wrestling. It’s a ballet, gymnastics performance, tv show. Call it whatever you want. Just don’t call it wrestling.

Why can’t wrestling, also be entertainment? There’s fighting in movies and TV.

Over the last couple weeks I have realized something about my wrestling fandom and how it relates to some members on this wrestling forum. Every week I seem to enjoy almost everything about Dynamite. I never end the show thinking “well that segment was terrible” or “they need to fix the officiating cause I’m not enjoying this”. I take notes for every show as I discuss it with my friends and I never have much criticism of what I just watched. Most of the time I even disagree with what John or Wai have criticised. I guess I just have different expectations for what I’m watching week to week. I only watch AEW but I feel pretty confident I would still feel the same way if I was to only watch NXT.


Of course it can. I’m not saying it can’t. It would be pretty pointless if it wasn’t entertaining. But for wrestling to be entertaining it has to be wrestling in the first place and if you remove the concept of rules then you remove the whole foundation of it being wrestling. Not applying the 10 count is like saying just let boxers take as long as they want to get up from a knockdown. There needs to be rules that are enforced otherwise the whole premise of the contest disappears.