Everything is all lining up for an explosive ending. The three-way brawl between Walker, Sam and Bucky was excellent. The themes of racial injustice are sharply contrasted between how Walker got a slap on the wrist for killing an innocent man and how Isaiah Bradley was tortured for simply being a black Captain America. Carl Lumbly was in a zone as he conveyed all the pain and suffering he went through as a super-soldier and Sam internalizing everything tells me he’s gonna change minds.
I’m aching to see what Sam’s new gear looks like.
Julia-Louis Dreyfus appearing in a surprise cameo was an episode of Veep I didn’t know I wanted!
So I’m asking a question that may confuse some because I’m still not sure what happened: How in the blue hell did Cap give away his shield when we saw Thanos break it during the climax of Endgame? Although it’s made of vibranium, Black Panther didn’t have a new shield produced between Civil War and Endgame. Tony is dead in Cap’s current timeline because he (old Cap) shows up during the aftermath. (Did Thanos even show up in Cap’s new timeline?) Could this be a plot by Loki, The Enchantress, or maybe a skrull. disguised as old Cap, with a fake shield that would turn the person wielding it into a mad man?
Remember old Cap didn’t want to tell anything about his current life when Falcon questioned it. Falcon didn’t use the shield at all until ep 5 so he wouldn’t be affected by the dark magic (or somehow he’s immune to it). John Walker’s attitude went from cool calm and collected into a mad man with no explanation.
That’s an interesting theory that I haven’t heard before that old Steve Rogers at the end of Endgame wasn’t really Steve Rogers. But I don’t think that’s the case. As Wai said the shield seems to have come from a different timeline. Which may even be touched on in Loki or “What-If” which look like they will be exploring alternate realities.
But John Walker was hardly cool and calm. Over the course of the last three episodes the show has depicted him as becoming increasingly desperate to solve the case and live up to the impossible mantle of Captain America. He’s been frustrated and angry that he’s not a super-soldier like Steve while having to battle super-soldiers and see’s his best friend killed by one. He’s taken the serum which enhances what you already are inside, in this case a violent angry solider.
Interesting discussion about John Walker and US government’s abandonment of soldiers but that, I think misses the mark (although interesting role reversal to Sam’s job when we meet him in Winter Soldier). And the reason is the same reason as to what’s wrong with John Walker as a whole.
No accountability for actions or consequences.
Before the fight in this episode he says ‘you don’t want to do this’ and during the fight ‘why are you making me do this?’ In the hearing he says ‘you made me like this’. It’s always someone else. He busts in on Sam and Karli when progress is being made and cares nothing of the result of his actions and puts himself above blame.
There’s an expression that fits Bill Goldberg a little better than John Walker but it’s close and that is ‘he was born on 3rd base and goes through life acting like he hit a triple.’
Walker was a football star, a war ‘hero’ and was handed the shield. He uses people and serum to elevate himself and his standing and consequences be damned. Is his character really that deep?
To me there’s no Killmonger/Vulture sympathy for this character. I don’t see how he’s victimized by circumstances to create understanding of motivation and get us on his side just a little bit. Why should we sympathize with Walker like, at all? He lacks the critical self awareness to get out of his own way and learn from experience. He’s Wile E Coyote except the coyote seems to have deeper motives.
I don’t think that makes Walker a tweener leaning heel. It makes him a straight up heel. Yes a better character than Hayward in Wandavision, but it’s not a blowout.
I don’t know…just my 2 cents. Sad WH missed a wide open look to take a shot at Jay White when Nate said ‘moustache twirling’.
Wow, those were some pathetic, RUSHED, half-assed wrap ups all across the board. Reminded me of the mediocrity that Luke Cage had become, and it was a show where they were stretching story lines to fill more episodes. This one went the other way around and was equally bad, if not worse. I’m rating it 5 for average. And that’s maybe generous.
Also pardon me that I can’t accept that in a second show now you are telling me that terrorist that willingly kill and torture people and their kids (yes, I am looking at you Wanda!) are good people because they fight for causes too, or had a trauma and those victims “will never know what them terrorists sacrificed”. GTFO!
@partci i haven’t seen the last episode yet, but this show does have a lot of similar problems that Luke Cage had. a passive, conservative main black character who’s slow on challenging the status quo. and an interesting concept that was never explored as well as it could’ve - bulletproof black man / black captain america.
Where is John Walker placed on this roster? Midcard face that gets booed, or what? This show left me wanting to see more from him even though I don’t understand who Elaine’s character is.
I sadly felt like Bucky took a backseat throughout this show despite always riding shotgun.
Anthony Mackie came out of this looking like a star and I’m fully on board with Falcon America.
Karli and the Flag smashers were terrible antagonists and I’m glad they are dead.
I liked this more than Wandavision but I doubt I will ever watch it again. How did this rate with you guys?
Jermaine from Chicago. First I want to say thanks for the always great discussion and adding my boy nate to the crew. Great series. Secondly, I have to adjust the saying a little but in the worlds of chuck d, I’m a black man and I could never be a captain American. Do you know how many of his own people would call him a sellout? Now to Isaiah Washington, he was lockup for years disrespected and experiment on. And all that brother got was a statue and it’s all good? At lease pay the man am I right? Lastly, we are all hear because of wrestling. So let me make a quick comparison of John walker and a wrestler. They gave him the rocket and the hype of the guy who came before him. But he wasn’t as good or had the charisma of the previous guy. So he had to do a heel turn. Who does this remind you of? Thanks and have a great week.
Hey, it seemed like nor The Avengers/Tony Stark/Pepper Pottr, nor the military paid Sam more than peanuts after all he has done (and was doing), so I guess it’s a fair game to leave an experimented on old man with just a (gold???) statue in his honor.
Was Walker a heel even for a blink of an eye (when he was enraged cause of his teammate’s gruesome demise)? To me he was the most likeable character on the show. Yeah, naive and flawed, but it seemed like he always had good intentions.
Really enjoyed this series and I think the finale was well done. I am super surprised with the number of people who don’t like the flag smashers in the antagonist role in this series.
1.) They aren’t a big name villain who would need more screen time and detract from the heroes in this series and their development. The central conflict centers around Sam and his hesitancy to accept the role of captain America not around the conflict with the antagonist.
2.) Having them be somewhat sympathetic villains with a relatable motivation allowed us to see the difference between Sam and Walker in the role as Captain America more cleanly than it would have had there been a super evil villain.
If anything I think the show suffered a bit from having too few episodes to get through all the things it tried to do. But overall I think it was still done well.
I thought the ending was as epic as the end of endgame. The Isaiah statue was the cherry on top of the cherry that was already on the cake: Sam with Carli in his arms reminded me of Sailor Moon holding Sailor Saturn after her death. EPIC.
I loved thos episode, wasn’t sure how they would wrap everything up but they managed to do it.
After hating him at the start, I’m surprised at how invested I am with the John Walker character and I think Wyatt Russells superb portrayal of him has been the reason for that.
There could easily be more episodes of this show and I would be quite happy with another series
In the end, this show just doesn’t have the courage to go where it needs to go. All it does is talk about issues, but never actually challenges them. It doesn’t have anything substantial to say about them.
It implies development, but never shows it. There’s allusion of change but the status quo is left undisturbed.
And poor Sam. His speech sounds more like rant, without a solid point to end on (just like this show). He talks about how there are people who don’t like him having the suit, but the only reaction other people have here is cheering him on.
He also says how it’s a good thing that he doesn’t understand how complicated things are. How GRC (represented by an American senator btw) can easily control banks and move borders. What is the implication here? Is he advocating for a “colonial powers draw up African borders” scenario? Is he proud of being ignorant? Is he a NWO (not the fun kind) conspiracy nut? You can’t apply black and white morality to something as complex as world politics.
Which this show does with the flagie smashie. They have no clear goal - are you trying to capture the GRC; intimidate them or kill them? Karli flip flops between somber and murder-happy so much it gives me whiplash. Her evangelical send-off is tone-deaf, trying to make us feel sorry for a character that was both underwritten and undeserving. Was Black Panther a fever dream? That movie got it so right with Killmonger and its core theme.
And John Walker continues this tone-deafness. Forgotten is the murder-heel. Accepted is he now by Sam and Bucky. No more conflict between them about the shield.
So I have to ask you guys - are you going to just talk about the show or for once will you actually challenge it?
Absolutely fantastic epsiode and everything was wrapped up perfectly setting the stage for Captain America 4, and much more.
The speech from Sam at the end was perfect for the current climate, and I love the line that his super power is that he believes we can do better. He’s absolutely right, we all can. And everything he did in this series exhibited that spirit. Sam Wilson is Captain America.
Also I’m not going to lie, I was in tears during the scene with Isiah Bradley and Sam touring the new exhibit. Both actors really drove home the importance of what was going on.
Also, I’m digging this Sharon Carter heel turn. It was never about the pardon for her, it was about the access. Can’t wait to see where her story goes.
What movies/series besides Captain America 4 do you guys see coming out of this?
I’ll add another thing: I had WAY more sympathy for John than I ever had for Karli (which is not a fair comparison, cause I had NONE for her for the entirety of the series, while he had perhaps the best arch overall). The creators of the show actually managed to make me feel for him, but completely failed to make me feel for her.
I had WAY more sympathy and understanding for what Zemo was doing as well.
The writers FAILED miserably at the task to present to me the case and struggle of Karli, when she was murdering driven extremist-terrorist with super powers.
I’ll also say this: there was absolutely zero need to make Falcon (who is black, in case you missed it) Captain America. Zero. He was doing god damn good as Falcon and was recognized as such from the people. I get the idea how much Cap means for the people, but Cap died. You can’t really replace Steve Rogers, sorry, cause you will always be seen like a second grade Cap. You can say Walker found this the hard way (especially with Bucky and Sam being dicks for him without even knowing him, but just because he accepted the role).
BTW the award for the most wasted character on the show goes to Bucky. Bar none. His 10 seconds resolution with the grieving father at the end was… nothing. It was 10 seconds. And ended with him leaving the man alone. What a complete and utter WASTE.
While the show was great and I enjoyed watching it, I think it failed to make Sam & Bucky main event players. I think it was a tale of 2 shows for these guys, Bucky had the stronger start and faltered by the end. Sam had a weak start and had a strong final 2 episodes, but it wasnt enough to make him a main event guy. He has a cool suit, but it is not enough to put a Captain America 4 movie, ahead of some of the others announced.
It was Sharon Carter, John Walker & Baron Zemo who came out of this show, having higher prospects. I’m infinitely more intrigued at what all of them are going to do next.
I have a wrestling/comic related question for you guys…we often see in comics, different characters taking over the mantle of a superhero, such as here with Captain America. Many people say wrestling is like a real life comic book, do you think this could work in wrestling? Obviously it didnt with such things as Fake Diesel & Razor and there have been other instances of fake characters, played as jokes, but if The Undertaker came out and did a serious promo, giving the gimmick to someone, or Hulk Hogan handed down the “Real American” gimmick, do you think it could work or is it always doomed to fail?
@partci Zemo and Walker are sympathetic because the show makes the mistake of thinking that Sam and Bucky are well established. But then forgets to make Sam and Bucky be compelling within the show so they are over-shadowed by characters that are given something to actually do. Karli fails because in 6 episodes we still don’t know anything about her - her morals, goals or even past. It’s all empty platitudes. The show would be better without having flag smashers in it.
I have no problem with Sam being Captain America. But the biggest mistake the show made was not having him be Cap right from ep1. It gives all the difficult “living up to the icon” stuff to Walker. And when Sam picks it afterwards, everyone is ok with him. So, where’s the struggle? Why not have Sam make the choice to be Cap and have “mixed” (for lack of a better word) reaction from people, and also the government who present their own version of what they want Cap to be in Walker. And so have a conflict Sam has stakes in.
