What is wrestling's media? Our ESPN

With all do respect its not Post Wrestling’s board. For major American sports its ESPN. If they no-sell the Odell Beckham Jr video his career wouldn’t be affected. The NHL has Coach’s Corner to lead conversations. NBA has the TNT panel (and First Take). I’m not asking who is “your” #1 Media. Who is “the” #1 media. The loudest voice.

Don’t know how there can be any answer besides Dave Meltzer.


After this Faboulas Moolah backlash I kinda asked the question knowing my answer. I think its Reddit’s /SquaredCircle. I listened to Meltzer give the Moolah rundown before. Today I went to sleep with one reddit post urging fans to do something about it and and woke up to Moolah dominating the page’s Top 25 and a Forbes article. You’ve been on the page before. The upvote system is such a great way to measure relevance. Dave may have sparked it. But it feels like the free to sign up /SquaredCircle is where a story does or doesn’t pick up the BIG MO

/SquaredCirlce are just like any other forum/fan group. I saw more support for the Moolah name change on Twitter than I did anywhere else.

Unfortunately, the answer is Meltzer and, to some extent the guys at The Torch. I’ve gone off Meltzer quite a bit over the last 12 months; his reporting is outdated, biased and lacking substance and integrity.

One of the reasons I support this website through Patreon is because I hope and believe that this team can be a proper alternative to the standard, with real reporting that this business needs.

Can u provide an example of a Meltzer report this year that was outdated, biased or lacked substance/integrity

I’m not a subscriber anymore but off the top of my head;

  • The way he handled the Elgin/Harassment story. I’m not opening that can of worms here, but a lot of people including me were not happy with the way he handled these serious allegations.

  • Didn’t report on the month long absence of several NXT stars, including Velveteen Dream and Lars Sullivan. Also flip-flopped on the injury status of Oney Lorcan and Ciampa.

  • Ummm.,…ahghhhh…well y’see…

  • Kari Sane not being allowed to use the diving elbow because it was Bayley’s move.

  • Didn’t talk much on the Mauro story. Then he left it for a while before blaming JBL, then backtracked and said JBL had nothing to do with it and then said it was Vince. Oh, and him saying the Aiden English gimmick was a stab at Mauro.

  • Well…ugghh…these are in motion…and plans…eerrmm

  • Still waiting for this big push for Lana/Eva Marie, Dave…

  • Said that WWE has more stock in Corbin than Braun. Oh boy.

  • AJ Styles going to RAW during the Superstar Shake Up.

  • Plans can change…ummm…y’seee…motion…

  • As you seem to be a Reddit guy, you’ll remember that time someone on there debunked Dave’s claims that 205 Live had awful viewing numbers. He also claimed that Talking Smack numers were bad and he was proved wrong but I can’t remember where/how.

  • X wrestler is being called up after Wrestlemania/Summerslam. But, y’know, plans change but Dave is NEVER wrong.

I remember his reporting about ROH the past two years being quite biased. Saying how on fire they were yet there was real no talk or hype for them anywhere but on his newsletter.

There’s loads more than this, details and methods that I didn’t agree with. It’s all built up for the past 18 months then I finally gave it up in January. Can’t say I’ve missed it at all.

There’s some positives to Dave still. His match recommendations are 100% spot on. You may not agree with the exact rating he gives a match, but chances are that if Dave gives it 4 stars or higher, you’re gonna like it.

The bright spot of Dave’s reporting and research, are stories like the WrestleMania 3 attendance numbers. He got evidence from other sources, including blueprints and tickets info, and maintains that WWE lied about the numbers and inflated them considerably. I want more of that Dave, and less of the “I’m one of the boys!”, turning a blind eye for his sources and seemingly making shit up on the spot Dave.

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I can tackle down all of those. Plans do change. I weigh his hits to misses and believe him when wrestler X was supposed to debut but didn’t. He reported the main event of WM34 back in spring, remember? That’s a bold lie to tell.

-Eva Marie failed a drug test then quit. I’m not holding that report against him
-The ROH bias exists but they are statistically selling out bigger buildings.
-Lars disappeared and he doesn’t know why so he reported only that he was missing. That’s responsible.
-He was wrong about Kairi’s elbow but i bet that was a conversation that was had by management.
-205’s viewing numbers are unknown. He only uses the “MOST POPULAR” rankings. Judging by crowd reactions I’m certain 205 doesn’t do well.

You’ve obviously got your opinions, and that’s fine. Everything you just said though is just Dave’s back tracking, Dave not knowing or Dave not caring. That’s unacceptable for a news source whom you to pay to get the information. Also, he couldn’t get the info on Lars or Dream? You kidding me? All his sources and he doesn’t know? So he’s either lost sources, has awful sources or he is hiding stories. Not good.

In today’s day and age, I don’t feel like everything listed above should be a part of any premium journalistic package. If he were some insider on Twitter or Reddit, it would be fine but he’s paid by a massive subscriber base to do a job and I don’t think he lives up to it anymore.

I swear Dave said Dream got a minor injury at Takeover in November and that’s why he missed a set of tapings? Regarding Lars, How do you know that Dave didn’t get more info but felt it wasn’t something that needed to be made public or was asked not to talk about it. I understand wrestlers are in the public eye but at the end of the day they are just people like me and you, Something personal might have happened to Lars which we don’t need to know about?
I’m a subscriber to the Observer but its not necessarily to get the latest ‘scoops’ I enjoy Dave’s writing and in depth analysis which is something you don’t get with some of these ‘insider’ sites.
I Can’t disagree with you regarding the Elgin story, Dave handled that poorly and there’s no defence of that however if you want to hold that against him surely you can’t be impressed with NJPW for continuing to push Elgin?

Much like the world of sports, Twitter is probably the #1 destination for news/rumors/debate.

Within that I’d say The Observer is ESPN, The Torch is Fox Sports, POST would be at a Yahoo Sports level right now, and Satin is TMZ Sports.

The major difference though is the world of wrestling And even mma media/journalism is far more fragmented than that of the more “mainstream” sports. :100:


She didn’t quit, they let her contract expire.

Don’t be besmirching the one true wasted talent like that.

Also…WWE doesn’t have an ESPN because it’s not real…they have a Variety or Ain’t it Cool News site that either keep the stories kayfabed or leak scripts.

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Different people have different expectations of Dave, obviously. As a subscriber, I was becoming increasingly disappointed and frustrated with the content and lack of substance.I was also growing tired of Dave’s co-hosts and the toxic forum.

Again, totally fine if it was free, but as a paying customer, I felt as I was getting a bum deal. Then the whole Elgin mess started and fluctuated and I thought “Fuck this guy” and left.

It’s a shame as The Wrestling Observer was a staple of my week for years. I would sneakily print it out at college (then later on, at work) and read it front to back.

Also, regarding Elgin/NJPW. I am not impressed that he’s being pushed. I don’t blame New Japan though, as they probably hardly know the true scope of what happened and Elgin himself has most likely just passed it off as ‘mega heat, brother!’. But I’m really not looking at carrying on the discussion of that topic as it’s one sure way to create a hostile environment here.

The actual TMZ means something to WWE. Remember the Lana/Dolph + Rusev/Summer storyline. Everyone and their uncle knew Lana and Rusev were a couple off screen. Then TMZ reported their engagement and the storyline ended as if the jig was up, people know the truth.

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I strongly feel that Dave Meltzer is the best wrestling reporter in the business. However, that doesn’t mean he’s always right or that everything he says will always come to fruition. But I never understood the people who bashed Dave’s calls to the LAW because he said “plans changed” or “I don’t know”. Aside from selling out his sources when he gets bad info (which would be both bad for business and bad journalism) or making something up, what else is he supposed to say? I trust Dave that he’s reporting things that (trustworthy) sources are telling him. That’s about all you can do.

(For what it’s worth, I’m not an Observer subscriber. I’m pretty much a WWE-only guy, so I figure anything particularly newsworthy will get to me through John and Wai or otherwise)


If a reporter throws in one liners and opinions in his “story”…is that actual reporting? Seems more like an opinion piece to me.

Also, legit reporters print retractions if their story is proven false, something I can’t recall Meltzer ever doing.

I don’t disagree with any of that. Meltzer walks the blurred line of being a “reviewer” and “reporter” simultaneously. And I think he’s too close to some guys and blindly in love with New Japan. But I still maintain that he’s the best we’ve got.

Speaking solely about WWE, part of the issue is that they don’t want “wrestling media.” For that matter, I don’t even think they really want “mainstream media” in the truest sense. They want to be able to USE mainstream media when it’s convenient. For every situation where WWE has tried (and often succeeded) to become a mainstream - or at least “sports mainstream” - story, there are five situations where they are probably thrilled that they don’t get covered as thoroughly as the NFL or a major TV show.

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I don’t think there is one. Their best shot at having one was when Coachman was with ESPN, I believe. It feels like Meltzer has the best access to the wwe, but I think the wwe treats every ‘reviewer / reporter’ as the ‘dirt sheets’ I agree with @RocketKing and would add that the wwe is a global ‘media’ company so they don’t need anyone to report .

Welcome to the corporate world.

Coachman with ESPN wasn’t covering all of wrestling. Not even all of WWE. He gave us out of character interviews but its not like I had an ESPN tab on my browser.

Dave is untouchable to me but it was telling on this past monday’s WOR when he said John Cena’s promo convinced him Cena wasn’t going to mania.

F4W/WO audio is focused on speculation and trying to guess the ending instead of enjoying the story. I’d compare them to Fox News/CNN/MSNBC. Not sure who the ESPN is, but I come listen to John and Wai for illustration the same way I sometimes watch Scott Van Pelt on ESPN.

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