WWE 4Q2019 & FY2019 Earnings Call (2/6/2020) - Discussion Thread

And that is the point I’m trying to make. If the Rock came out now, he would be a mid carder with 50/50 booking, scripted promos, oversaturation, and bad jokes.

The Rock and bad jokes always went together. Some of the stuff he said was moronic and would come across as such in the hands of most other wrestlers. He had charisma and was entertaining. He’d still be pushed big because of that as Vince values that higher than in ring work and to be fair, being entertaining and having charisma is what ultimately makes stars. We’d like to think that it’s down to being a great wrestler that’s involved in great storylines but that’s only what people inside the wrestling bubble care about.

I have to say the Lacey Evans PR driven stuff sounds terrible. She’d be a boring as fuck character getting booed out of the building. The way they’ve handled her has been dumb but this idea gets a no from me.

I’d also don’t see how Cody is a “star”. I say that as someone who’s never been that into him though. Don’t buy into him as a babyface either. His mannerisms and his way of talking make him a natural heel for me. The cheers he gets sound forced, just like the boos MJF gets. It’s all very pantomime rather than genuine in my opinion but as I said, I’ve never been big on Cody.

Yes to all of that. WWE has taken the brand over stars approach for years. So they don’t have huge stars. Becky seems like the only one of late that is getting beyond their bubble at all (other than Brock and Rhonda who got beyond the bubble on their own.). Wrestling is also no where near as big as it used to be. I remember as a kid Hogan had his own cartoon, I had a hogan exercise kit, he was appearing in some big movies while he was still active. Sgt. Slaughter was in GI Joe.

No one is near that level of outside reach, nor have they been since I don’t think. They have had other big Stars and the Rock is there now but he wasn’t there as much when he was in the company as it was targeted at older fans who grew up with the product since Hogan.

As to Cody I love him but if we are judging by the measuring sticks of huge stars he isn’t one. He is a reasonably big star in the wrestling bubble but I’m not sure his draw extends much beyond that. He isn’t Cena level yet.

WWE doesnt know how to make stars anymore, the last five years are proof of that - the system is broken.

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Well it depends what they want to accomplish. They originally had Lacey walk up and down the aisle for months, doing nothing. Then she lost a bunch of times to Becky.

Then randomly she turned face. And then began crying about her father struggling with drugs.

I’m not sure exactly how I’m supposed to react to her. She still has the same music, same mannerisms and same outfit.

We were told that everyone coming up from NXT would “have a plan”. Clearly that was not true. At least her coming in as a PR character would be a direction. Right now it’s just week to week crap.

This might be the stupidest thing I’ve ever seen. You don’t think Cody is a star and don’t buy him as a baby face?
Have you seen the reactions he gets?

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It sounds awful to you because you can only imagine it as contrived WWE PR. With the midas touch, could be presented as a real role model for women who has served in the military, is trying to be a super hero for her daughter and having fun. I would bet if you asked Lacey why she is doing what she is doing in an unscripted environment on a talk show she’d actually sound so full of passion and inspiration that she’d make Oprah cry. But we all can’t imagine that because WWE has conditioned us to always expect contrived bullshit.

My point on Cody is that the story behind his character is more human and relatable than anything WWE tries to present. I compared it to Austin not because of Star Power (so much of that is Time + Place), but because Austin’s character was a chip-on-the-shoulder guy going against authority and people of the time could relate to that. Cody is a nostalgic wrestler trying to carry a deceased parent’s legacy on in the industry and he has a chip-on-the-shoulder from being passed over by the bigger WWE.

Even take the Hangman story right now and how that has caught fire. He’s always been the young up’n’comer in the group and been over shadowed. His friends are all EVPs now and he’s just trying to do his own thing and they won’t let him. Throw in the fact he wants to drink beer and kick ass and not listen to anyone. It’s so much more relatable than the Mesiah Seth Rollins or Shorty G. This is where WWE goes wrong in creating stars - they have no relatable characters, even though they have a bigger platform to launch talent.

EDIT:

Cody isn’t a star in the sense that the guys named earlier in this thread are (Brock, Rock, Cena, Jericho). Much of that is time and place. Cody is as big a wrestling star as a wrestling company can have within today’s framework of wrestling. In a world where we now have YouTube stars and TikTok stars, it’s not realistic to expect our Wrestling Stars to cross-over like Hogan or Austin or Rock. Even somebody like Cena needed to cross into Hollywood to go A-List.

I’ll stop using AEW. Look at the times WWE had talent really connect and get over as babyface stars.

Daniel Bryan and Kofi Kingston - both guys who were being over-looked and spent their careers being held back from main even spots. Everyone can relate to that feeling of “just give me a chance”.

Brock Lesner - a believable ass kicker who actually went to UFC and dominated and now is back in WWE and people buy into it as it is believable (even if not relatable). It’s not that hard. Go threw guys in your head and think why you liked them and it’s pretty easy to understand where WWE goes wrong.

@AuthorOfPosts - It’s just like you were raving about Rollins being the best thing in wrestling a few weeks ago. Now he’s talking like no one human has ever talked, has very little heat and his group isn’t building to anything long term. It’s a week to week story - just like they threw the tag titles on them for some reason.

Compare that to AEW where you actually have stories with pay offs - Jericho/Moxley, Cody/MJF, Hangman and there really is no comparison.

It’s why AEW stars feel a lot bigger.

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My opinion of a wrestler isn’t going to change because of other people’s opinions on a wrestler. That’d be fucking stupid. For me, Cody isn’t a likeable character. The end.

Depends who you’re talking to. If you’re talking to someone who thinks everything on AEW is perfect and gets personally offended by criticism (like a lot on here) then sure, they’ll pretend AEW stars “feel bigger” but they aren’t bigger. And that’s a fact whether you like WWE or not. A random midcarder would be seen as a big player in AEW simply because of WWE association.

To me, the Lacey Evans face turn is all “I’m a marine! USA! I’m a mother! USA! I’m a marine!” It has no real meaning to anything beyond catch phrases. Maybe they’ll shorten her name…that always works.

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Really? So why did a main event talent (Charlotte) show up on NXT and not move the needle one bit?

No wrestlers, apart from a select few “move the needle”.

And your point was about wrestlers “feeling like big stars” to AEW fans on AEW and not wrestlers actually moving the needle. Don’t change the game in the middle of the discussion. No one on AEW bar Jericho (who’s mainly known because of WWE) does much to move the needle on AEW. After that, AEW’s stars are Cody (who’s mainly known because of WWE) and Moxley (who’s mainly known because of WWE) and I wouldn’t say they’re big needle movers. After that it’s Omega (whose reputation has gotten a lot worse on AEW) and doesn’t move the needle either. Charlotte would be one of AEW’s top stars regardless of her “moving the needle” or not.

The fact that you’re now arguing that being on wrestling’s biggest platform (WWE main roster) and wrestling’s only global wrestling promotion doesn’t raise a wrestler’s profile is insane.

The point was WWE doesn’t know how to build stars or tell stories anymore - in a short time AEW has done a way better job at that

You were raving about Rollins and his group being the best thing in wrestling - where is that story going? What is it all leading to? Just seems like a generic heel to me

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MJF would be my idea of a generic heel. Delivers rehearsed lines of juvenile insults like an everyday heel from the 80s. That’s why Cornette loves him I guess. Jericho does regular heel stuff as well. And I still prefer a heel, messiah Rollins to either of them.

You want to pretend this is all new and AEW are reinventing wrestling but none of that is true. They’re just another wrestling promotion doing regular wrestling stuff. Just depends on what you like on one hand but you liking something doesn’t necessarily mean it’s the biggest thing in the world. To you it might be but when talking about more than just you and other hardcore AEW fans, you should try to be objective.

Cody is not mainly known for his WWE run. He’s known for his ROH and NJPW and All In.

I’m not sure what you expect of AEW. For a brand new promotion they are creating the best main event storylines (NXT as well).

Main roster sucks - does anyone care about Fiend vs Bryan when you know the outcome? Or Brock vs Riccochet?

I’m not expecting AEW to be full of stars bigger than WWE’s (that’s you and others pretending I said something so your stance makes sense), the issue is this idea that AEW already has wrestlers who feel like bigger stars than WWE’s which is complete nonsense.

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