Merch numbers are wayyyy down. When’s the last time WWE had a hot shirt? Pro wrestling tees has taken a huge piece of pie out of that
I don’t watch Baron Corbin. I couldn’t watch him in NXT, I couldn’t watch him without a crown, I can watch him eve less with a crown. I skip Baron Corbin. I skip The Drifter. I skip Seth. I skip Roman. I skip New Day. It is painful cause sometimes they are against people that I actually like, but either their shtick or character or performance is repulsing me to watch them.
@TheBenjamin so you won’t be buying the new Drew McIntyre t-shirt? Why? It is so 21-st century design and such an compliment on his character on TV too.
Again, you’re missing point. I’m not saying that merch is up or down, I’m not saying that their merch does or does not do better then pro wrestling tee’s. My point is that the WWE does have kids who are fans, hence why guys like Roman and Cena sell as much as they do.
Did you like the Orton/Edge build-up to mania? (not the match).
Cena and Reigns have barely been around the past two years. That’s one of the reasons why the dip has happened more recently. The majority of fans are people who watched when they were kids. Who on the roster now is appealing to kids? They haven’t had that kind of star in a longtime. The numbers all prove that
Loved the Edge/Orton build
That number is scary low, even considering what we are going through with COVID. The allure of a CM Punk return used to be a potential ratings draw, but even that has lost its luster a bit since he’s just been kind of there on a talk show that draws low ratings as well. If they want to rebuild this, it’s going to have to be slow and gradual. The late '90s ratings boom wasn’t built overnight. Let’s not forget their numbers were scary low in 1996 and it took a great rebulilding year in 1997 to eventually bring them way up in 1998 and 1999. Though, the world wasn’t going through a pandemic during that so those comparisons might not be relevant.
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“Cena and Reigns have barely been around the past two years.”
Come on man, if you’re going to debate at least be honest. Either you are lying to me, or you are lying to yourself. Cena sure. Roman has been off since Mania, but prior to that he’s been on TV since he came back from his leukemia which February 2019, even for that he was only off TV for a few months. Nov to Feb I believe.
Whatever, not sure why this is something your refuse to acknowledge. No point going in circles.
If you are saying that WWE isn’t creating new fans in kids since the pandemic, that I will agree with.
Fair comparable, sure the last month is a bit of an outlier, but your overall point is pretty spot on.
Reigns wasn’t booked as a top star ever since he came back from leukemia. I just don’t understand this idea you have that WWE has been growing new stars. Zero evidence to back any of that up, aside from the fact that you saw some kids in the crowd before.
I’d argue the biggest issue between why this could work then (96-98) and cannot happen now, is because that version of the company is dead.
I was a diehard WWF fan in the late 90’s. That small business that became a leader in the industry, that was in a sense, “independent”. They are now a giant publicly traded company, with hopes of / basically are, a multi-media entertainment conglomerate. For lack of a better comparison, they have become what they vilified and fought against in WCW / Time Warner.
To me, they have lost everything that made them what they became. They have spent the last two decades telling fans that nothing will ever top the Attitude Era and it’s stars… And I think, fans finally got the message.
The impact of Covid on WWE to me, is just something that accelerated the already existing consistent decline in viewership and audience. And I don’t know if we will ever see anything close to 3M viewers , for WWE, for a long time, if ever.
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I thought you said Reigns hasnt been around? Now you’re backpedaling and saying that he hasn’t been booked like a top star. How is his booking relevant anyways? My initial point was that the WWE does build its audience with kids but does a bad job with teens/20 somethings, and I used the merch sales of Cena and Reigns as evidence of this.
Also where did I say that WWE is “growing new stars”? Please quote me. Of course you won’t because I never said this, so enough with the strawman’s. Like I said before, I’m not going to debate with you if you just make stuff up. You claim you want evidence, but even if I search and find it, you will just stop responding like you did with the Ryder discussion we had.
I’m not claiming to have some type of special knowledge here. WWE does build their audience with kids. Obviously kids are a new audience given the fact that they are kids. You see kids in the audience, John Cena is #1 for make a wish, a lot of their merchandise which does sell is created to appeal to kids. You’re making it sound like what I am saying is some shocking revelation or that I saw 1 child in an audience and am acting like that is proof. I personally know many people my age (mid/late 30’s) that were fans in the attitude era who have kids, who are now into it. I don’t like using anecdotal evidence because it really doesn’t mean anything, but you are acting as if I am saying something crazy.
Maybe this is my fault and I’m not explaining this well enough, but to to be clear, I am not even saying that WWE is capturing more kids today then any other era, what I am saying is that WWE does build their audience in that demo. Where they lack is teens/20 somethings and audience retention.
I would guess the majority of fans in general got hooked when they were kids. I don’t think I have ever met something who became a fan as an adult. Again, this is not some revelation here that I am saying.
100%, that version of the WWE is dead. WWE is to wrestling what Microsoft is to computers, Nike is to sports apparel, UFC is to fighting etc. They are a billion dollar corporation that will likely never be surpassed in their world
The way “TV” is watched now a days is also so different. There are so many platforms, and there is so much out there to watch. I also think that the late 90’s were an outlier. That seemed like a small period of time that wrestling just blew up, for the most part wrestling has just been a niche sport, even if WWE was booking perfectly, I dont think they will ever reach those heights again in this current landscape.
I think that right now its a been a weird time, and I do believe that when things go back to normal their audience will rise, the question is will it come back to where it was back in March, my gut tells me yes,
but who knows.
As for the booking, NXT has shown that WWE is capable of putting on a good show, and with Vince being 74, I have to think that sooner then later he will be stepping down from the creative side of the company Time will tell.
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Sorry I meant growing new fans.
What kid watches a 3 hour show every Monday night till 11 pm EST?
Cena and Reigns have not been pushed guys for a while. Their main audience is dudes 40 plus, bottom line.
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Fair enough… But I do wonder, why are we all still assuming that once a Vince is out of the picture, that there will be a creative renaissance leading to good shows, and one would hope, increased audience?
NXT has been on primetime cable television for the last 7 months, with frequent promotion and guess stars from the much more watched flagship shows - and have failed to attract even half their audience. One would assume that there would be some growth in that time, had the creative direction connected with the audiences out there.
If the company isn’t sold, Stephanie will take the lead I’m sure.
Very fair point, and I dont know the answer to that. If I had to guess, its that with the branding/promotion behind Raw and Smackdown, if the quality went up, ratings would improve. I could very well be wrong though.
As far as NXT, I dont think I’ve ever even seen a commercial for it (outside of a WWE broadcast). Also, NXT is brand new as far as national TV goes, maybe the audience does grow as its on TV for for a longer time. I’m sure airing head to head doesnt help with its number as well. Can you imagine if it did better ratings then Raw, that would be something.
As for why I think booking would improve, I’m just assuming that with Vince no longer booking, HHH would do a better job based on NXT. I can see HHH ditching scripted promo’s to an extent.
Agreed with Cena, no need to bring him up. Agree that WWE’s main audience skews older, I never said anything to the contrary.
Reigns maybe hasnt been the #1 guy in the company in a little while, but its laughable that you think he hasn’t been pushed. He was still the main guy on SD for the past year.
Who said a kid needs to watch for 3 hours to be a fan? I dont watch for 3 hours. My guess is that kids DVR and watch who they like the next day.