NJPW Gimmick Matches

And that’s relevant how? If this company is supposed to mimick sport…it should mimick the entire thing.

I didn’t know ‘sport’ was one generic term. Different sports have different rules, regulations and motifs. There are actions you can perform in AFL that you won’t see in Rugby and vice versa.

So, NJPW has lenient refs. They warn the wrestlers whenever they push the boat out too far but will try to end the match with a legitimate decision to preserve the integrity of the sport. When a DQ is called, and it is rare, it then actually means something (same with countouts as well).

It’s scary that WWE has conditioned fans to expect tons of DQ’s and shitty finishes.

Pretty sure every league has zero tolerance when it comes to touching their officials.

There’s no justifying having referees with zero authority…how about don’t book the talent that way or let your talent do that kind of crap for cheap heat?

It’s not a WWE thing…it’s just anything with a ref.

Pretty cut and dry…

As my previous points have said, I disagree entirely.

Yes, every league may have a zero-tolerance policy, but not every league is going to end a match or game if/when a ref is touched by a participant.

But the player would get tossed from the game, fined and suspended.

If this was any combat sport or just an individual sport…they would get disqualified.

If you’re trying to “preserve the dignity of the sport”…wouldn’t an official who isn’t toothless be better?

Again, different sports have different caveats and details. It’s not entirely hard to comprehend; could you imagine the bullshit a company would have to deal with if their massively advertised main event ended with a non-finish? PWG does the same thing; give the people a decisive finish but always make sure wrestlers know where the line is.

You can’t grasp that and that’s fine, my man. I had a friend who couldn’t enjoy a scramble match once because people weren’t following the tag rules that he knew and not the ‘hit the floor, you partner is now legal’ rules.

Again…if you don’t book your talent to push around authority figures…you wouldn’t have to DQ anyone.

Cheap heat isnt a good justification…it’s supremely TNA-esque to use such tactics.

I disagree. And the comparisons to TNA are laughable.

Another example of clear bias. …it’s still pro wrestling, the culture of sports no matter the country is still the same and referees all should have authority. It’s not good booking to pretend that shouldn’t be adhered too just because it’s Japanese.

That’s like saying they don’t play baseball with baseball rules.

Your idea of every wrestling promotion following the same set of rules, procedures, caveats and details bores me to fucking tears. Wind it in, mate.

Ok…so we’re not trying to preserve the dignity of the sport now?

its a work dude did you also know that people don’t usually get up from six unprotected knees to the face also irish whips don’t work IRL

i have other news about santa claus i’m going to be releasing soon watch this space

like the entire point of wrestling is to take the idea of SPORT and artificially create the drama that comes with sport when it gets exciting. the facsimile does not have to be complete to be effective as a storytelling device. the whole lore of wrestling circles around the idea of referees having the “final say” (also not a real thing in other sports mostly) and if a referee gets shoved and doesn’t call a DQ, well, that’s their “choice”, because wrestling is a work and that works as an effective plot device.

I’m just showing some logic gaps in this product.

Lazy heel tactics that leave their authority figures just as nutless as people cry about Stephanie McMahon doing to people.

Seems like pure bias because it’s foreign and new to people.

And LOL at having to use the “it’s a work” trope.

Yall don’t act that way when WWE/WCW/TNA did anything that would get them in trouble in a real sports setting…one would think something called the king of sport would adhere to the same standards.

i mean, i don’t mean to break out “it’s a work” to say “don’t think about storytelling”, I mean it to say that wrestling has storytelling and some level of a suspension of disbelief. WWE has a ref take a bump, I might shake my head because it’s a bit of an overused spot and it almost always means that some shenanigans are going to take place meaning whatever heel is in whatever match I’m watching is going to cheat to win - usually win a title too - and that’s a little tiring. That was not the case at Wrestle Kingdom. The rules were relaxed for most everyone, and it’s fine to not be okay with that but that was clearly the case, and yeah, the referees bumped around a little.

Honestly the more I think about it the more I have no idea what your alternative reality of wrestling would be. You seem to assign a lot of importance to these “authority figures” because they’re important in other sports, but ignoring the fact that it’s wrestling and that’s part of the medium at its core. If you want something more realistic, mixed martial arts exists - but if you’re going to complain that it’s unrealistic that referees don’t DQ everyone for run-of-the-mill shenanigans you may as well start complaining about how it’s unrealistic that wrestlers take knockout-force blows a hundred times a match and the fights don’t get stopped - or how people can bleed buckets of blood and there’s no blood stoppages. Like you’re complaining that the rules of a worked sport apply conditionally when it’s convenient for the drama and storytelling of the sport - which is baffling.

I wanna go back to what you said in the quote above - and it’s flawed for multiple reasons. The first is, obviously the attitudes of WWE/WCW/TNA, even ROH or most american indies are dramatically different than the attitude toward wrestling in Japan. The crowd is different, the storytelling is different, the psychology is different - so of course the critiques of it are different. But even if that wasn’t true, I feel like people would point out logical inconsistencies in mainstream American wrestling. Take for instance the Benjamin/Gable vs Usos match from Smackdown recently that involved an instant replay - a lot of people complained that the rules were enforced inconsistently, that the instant replay wasn’t within the common rulebook that we accept for pro wrestling. I personally didn’t mind it, it was just a trope to set up a rematch and angle and I didn’t really care, but it bothered some people. People DO care about the logic of american wrestling (you think people haven’t criticized TNA? really?), but sometimes people go too far. And this particular criticism feels like too far for me. The point of wrestling is drama, the ref bumps were used for dramatic impact, it was perfectly fair.

The Sanada/Evil vs Archer/Smith Jr and Suzuki/Goto didn’t have ref bumps…it was ref assault and neither match was billed as No DQ.

If someone just said “yeah the refs are lenient” and not brought out some bullshit excuse about the integrity of the sport and adding realism to that…would’ve immediately stopped me from introducing what legit sports and their refs actually do.

Yeah it’s pro wrestling…uh huh…I get that. Don’t try say things like they present realism and integrity if it totally contradicts that. It just negates everyone’s entire point.


What? I lumped them in the heavily critiqued column if they did anything like that.

Jericho brought up the refs getting roughed up and taking away from him and Omega with Kenny agreeing on his podcast…

so no middle ground is allowed. Its either WWE with goofy finishes and overbooked all to hell or its MMA. No in between allowed. New Japan is not REAL SPORT. Its more sportlike than WWE however. Even Vinnie Mac would tell you that.

At the end of the day its still wrestling. Refs take bumps, they get pushed out of the way or attacked from behind. That stuff still happens in New Japan just like in any other wrestling promotion. However New Japan presents their general product as more of a real sport.

The real question is why does this bother you so much?

Deezy is probably the kind of fella who moans about CHIKARA related shenanigans but is totally fine when Undertaker and Kane perform teleportation tricks.

Firstly…it doesn’t bother me, obviously me questioning it bothers you and everyone else who don’t like anyone wondering why there are double standards when it comes to the North American big leagues and foreign products and indie feds.

Guess that makes me the asshole, how dare I hold everything to the same standard.

Magic tricks are lame, always have been…no matter who does it.

Same standards.

“This Doctor Pepper doesn’t taste like Pepsi! But…they are both carbonated drinks, therefore they must be the same…but they aren’t! How despicable!” - Deezy, Jan 2018.