The inaugural All Elite Wrestling thread


#21

Right now, i feel it’s kind a fun to speculated about what this whole thing will bee since we know very little about the promotion outside of what came out yesterday.

If i was them, i would at less consider having at less three championship. A World title, a tag title and a women’s title. You really can’t attract newer fans to a product if you don’t give them something to care about and having somebody chasing a title always bring interest to casual fans and it’s a easy storyline to do.

As far as WWE guys leaving for AEW, i really doubt a lot of them will leave right away. The thing is that in WWE they have job security which is something that a lot of wrestlers like to have plus a guy like sami zayn gets to come home once in a while and wrestled in front of his hometown which i think is a big plus for him, he probably won’t get that with AEW. Plus the fact that this is a pretty new venture, they is the risk factor of this being a total failure by the first or second year of existence so then what going to happen to those ex wwe guys? They can’t really go back to WWE right away and the indy scene is so crowded right now that while a major WWE guy like a kevin owens could easily get a spot anywhere, a Zack ryder or revival might not get a major spot on the indy scene after that. So my best bet is that a lot of guy within WWE will probably look at how stable the whole thing is and maybe some will make the leap after they’re wwe contract ends but if since most guys have families and they have to choose between their loved for wrestling or job security they might choose job security which is sad to say.

The only guys within WWE that i could see leaving would be the younger guys like a velveteen dream or any of the younger guys that only have their career to live for and see that going to a upstart promotion like AEW is a good risk to take. But for a lot of the veteran, the goal was to get to WWE and be a featured player in the company.

Again, i take sami zayn for exemple, the guy might not be a main eventer, but the guy as been a major player in the company for a while now and will continue getting a push when he comes back from injury. he doing the best work of his career and he star will just go up as time goes on. Again, will AEW guarentee that i will be able to wrestled in montreal once and a while and be able to go home? that’s questionable right now because we don’t know anything. Will he even make a blimp on a roster that will be full of star plus since he won’t be able to use the sami zayn character because it’s a wwe trademark, will casual fans even know who he is on when he shows up? that’s another problem that they would encounter if former WWE guys shows up,

For the most part, they all have WWE trademark character which means that they would have to modify they’re characters if they were to show up in AEW. Unless they do some really agressive promotion around a guy, fans won’t follow because it’s not because they were a fan a a certain performer that they will follow him or her wherever they go. So signing former WWE talents doesn’T guarantee them success.

Right now, if i’m a WWE talent especially in the lower midcard, i look at how this whole thing turns up and just play the waiting game, be patient, just wait until this thing is stable enough that you won’t jeopardize your whole career by jumping ship to quickly. If it got a solid fondation then decide if you’re better off jumping ship or not. But if i’m AEW, i would first focus my attention on promoting the homegrown talents they will sign and not go to aggressively toward getting WWE guys because the first few years will be critical for they’re success and if they sign a lot of WWE guys, they will be compare to WWE and the last thing any promotion want is to be called WWE lite. That’s why WCW went under and that’s why Impact is in the state it’S in right now.


#22

I’d argue some of the hottest and best matches of the year 2018 did not need a title:
Gargano v Ciampa
Gargano v Black
Kenny vs Cody
Golden Lovers v Young Bucks
Hangman v Joey Ryan didn’t even need a match and had a huge payoff

Miz v Bryan wasn’t great by the time they could do it burn that had people saying it could be on the WM card without a title

And then you had feuds for titles that truthfully didn’t need titles:
Naito v Jericho
British Strong Style v Undisputed Era
Ciampa v Gargano
Omega v Jericho

In all of 2018 only two matches required titles (anyone have others) to be more important than they would have been without:
Omega v Okada
Cody v Aldis

But this is a topic for a different thread


#23

El Generico in today’s landscape I have to imagine would kill it in merch outside of WWE and as a recognizable character with and without the mask he would be able to be used in multiple ways. If they are offering multi-year deals I’d be curious how much is guaranteed.
Plus, more days off without house shows, easier on a beat up body, and guess who’s not in business with Saudi Arabia :thinking:
Sami is my ideal guy if I’m targeting WWE guys.

And if the Revival were not stuck in the purgatory that is WWE tag team division they’d have been booked around the world and back with the Bucks at the height of FTR. Probably making real money beyond their downsides in WWE or what they were paid in NXT. When BTE gets you over better than your own promotion, time to explore greener pastures.

But it is all fun to speculate and debate until things start happening. I can’t wait to be wrong about half of what I want or guess will Ben happening. There’s a reason I love likely/unlikely. It’s so fun to go back and see how much changed.

EDIT: I have no clue what kind of contracts are being offered (none of us do, but let’s assume they are competitive)…and I recall earlier in 2018 WWE contract terms / deals were leaked. I think only a handful of guys made 7 figures (oddly enough, including Ziggler), and then NXT deals are notoriously low. And the merch splits are very unfavorable unless you are a top guy like Cena/Lesner, etc. And even then I thought I remember seeing something like Cena gets 5% of merch sales. So I can only imagine how little somebody like Zayn or the Revival see from their weaker sales.


#24

that’s what i like about a situation like this one, is you get to speculate and play fantasy booking because it’s so mysterious and new. So like everybody else, i write about what i feel they should and shouldn’t do so that they can be successful.

Also i just finish watching Who war it better? on the wrestling with wregret youtube channel, and he brought up a good point about this, will the fact that AEW is coming bring a over saturation as far as alternative are concern to the point where fans will just give up and stop watching wrestling all together? We already have ROH, IMPACT, MLW, NJPW plus all the other Mega indy fed that are battling within each other to sign talents to exclusive deals, will the addition of AEW just burst the bubble that is the indy scene at the moment? That’s a interesting scenario to examine as well with all of this. The wrestling scene at the moment is very healthy and fans are ready to just consume as much as they can but how long but fans just get bored in trying to watch everything? Time will tell i think but it’s worth a closer look and see what kinda of impact AEW will have on the wrestling landscape as a whole.


#25

Last week there was a report out that Anthem tried to offload to the AEW group. I do think with any success AEW will put Impact out of business.

I’d like to see AEW partner with MLW and PWG with regard to talent shares. The key to attracting talent in my mind is:

  1. What do the deals look like and are benefits part of a package and
  2. Do the deal allow for working outside promotions where guys can subsidize whatever cut they take to their guaranteed income from say WWE.

There is some far out there report (saw this reposted on Wrestlezone - which is a site I hate to use but so frequently as it aggregates a lot of what’s out there) that the JR and Jericho involvement is deep and they are working with Barry Bloom who reps a lot of marquee names.

I’ll tell you this much as a very passionate BTE fan - I will quickly be All Out if we are getting Impact circa 2010 or WCW late 90s. Please keep the “legends” away from this beyond cheeky cameos. There is no quicker way in Wrestling to burn money and tank than spending on marquee legends who nobody is clamoring to see.


#26

I’ve read that report as well and if this is true, they will rely a lot on nostalgia at first, from having on tv deal on the Turner network, to using jim Ross on commentary, to even trying to get Goldberg to make a appearance and trying to have other legends show up. This feel like a lot of mistake happening all at once.

I wouldn’t go that route if I was them mostly because the attraction for most fans is to see the Indy stars that wouldn’t get a fair shake in wwe get that change on a major platform. Bringing legends like Goldberg won’t help them especially Goldberg since wwe just did the whole Goldberg return to pro wrestling and they did it in such a way that it would make everybody else who brought him up look like wwe lite in comparison.


#27

Jim Ross, Chris Jericho, Goldberg etc are going to bring eyes to your product. These are names that people know, as well as anyone else that I am sure they would use. Those guys would also be interacting with new, fresh talent, that they most likely never have or had very limited interaction with. It is all in how you use them.


#28

Seeing Brit Baker is All Elite.

So she is seriously involved with Adam Cole. Who is very close with the Elite guys. Who is flourishing in NXT. Who also is similar build to past NXT stars Finn Balor and Sami Zayn.

So what’s the argument to Cole taking his NXT fame (let’s say it’s a level above ROH fame) and going to AEW as a big new signee instead of moving to main roster. Let’s say the money is equal. What do you do if your Cole?


#29

There is a big difference. I think Finn Balor is incredibly overrated in ring and doesnt have a ton of charisma. Sami Zayn is great in the ring, but I think he lacks in the charisma department as well(he has gotten better though.) Adam Cole has more charisma than both of them combined and that is why I think he will be a superstar on the main roster.


#30

By here’s a question I think guys need to consider: who do you trust to build you up and maximize potential…WWE Creative or BTE/Jericho/JR

Again all hypothetical - downsides both same, tv for both. Obviously the WWE has a higher ceiling albeit a proverbial glass ceiling.

I guess my point if there is one beyond fun speculation is this is taking place at a time both talent and fans are incredibly sick of main roster booking / creative. It’s not like the WWE has done itself any favors and even with all the new guaranteed money it’s going to guys like Brock and always will.


#31

I feel that for certain wrestlers that have been on the Indy scene for a while, They’re still that feeling of wanted to see if they can make it in the big league that is wwe. You could create any wrestling company in the world with the same cash flow as wwe, wwe Wil always be considered the big league in pro wrestling.

So guys like Adam Cole I feel want to see if they can make a impact in wwe, That’s why they sign with them in the first place, it wasn’t about the money. So it doesn’t really matter how much money they throw at him or the connection or who they trust more in creative. As a wrestler, it’s more about seeing how big you can get in the big leagues. Kinda like hockey players wanted to see if they can make it in the nhl or football players in the NFL. It’s more a question of pride for some wrestlers.

Yeah, the world of wrestling is changing and WWE isn’t the be all and end all for everybody, the young bucks are the perfect example of that, but it doesn’t change the fact that until they go bankrupt, WWE will be the big league of wrestling and everybody else will be second best.

That’s what happened during the Monday night wars and that What’s going to happen again.


#32

I hate saying it but kinda agree with you. Fox just paid $200 million a year for Smackdown which is double what is said to be the initial investment by Kahn. And I bring up Fox because if (like for a while in the Monday night wars), AEW is doing a better number than Smackdown is on Fox there is going to be a a lot of very angry people paying WWE a lot of money. They won’t stand for it, WWE will adapt. And WWE ultimately will win.

I can see a Fox exec now demanding to know why Vince didn’t sign those guys. I know FOX doesn’t have ownership in WWE but maybe more than before with NBCU, if Smackdown on Friday’s doesn’t do well and is perceived as a bust, that’s going to be very hard for WWE to overcome. 5 years isn’t a long time and investors, Wall Street, other stakeholders won’t be too kind to WWE losing money in its next rights deal because they proved not worth it. I feel that’s true with or without AEW being able to compete.


#33

that’s kinda of the point of all this and i agree with you on this. Fox decided to go with WWE instead of UFC because of the brand recognition WWE brought. WWE isn’t really in a difficult position as they are going to be on friday night which isn’t a big night for Fox and all they really need to do is to maintain the number that the current shows on friday are doing in the 18 to 49 demographic which i think is around a 1.0 right if i’m not mistaken. So you look at how WWE is doing tv and it’s pretty much the network telling them what to do as far as the content is concern. Raw went to 3 hours not because WWE wanted it but because USA ask them to do it. I read some interview with Vince and HHH that said that if it wasn’t for the current contract they have with NBC universal, Raw would have went back to 2 hours already but because USA wants 3 hours every year, they produce 3 hours every year. Same goes for what happened last year during the holiday season when USA ask WWE to do a live edition of Raw on christmas and New year’s. It wasn’t a WWE decision, it was a network decision.

WWE is pretty much going to do whatever the networks ask them to do because of the money they get from the tv deals. AEW might not be in that position because it won’t have as many roadblock as far as producing the tv show. The thing is, if they sign with Turner like it’s been rumored, how long before turner execs changes their mind again about wrestling. If this doesn’T produce the ratings they thing this will do, they might just go and let the deal run out and cancel the show like they did with WCW back in the day. AEW is in this weird position that it’s a company based on the success of one event and whoever decide to sign them will want to get the same type of result that ALL In produced right away. Will they be able to get to that level of number 2 promotion as quick as the network will want them to go, that’S another story. The fact is that right now, they are competing with ROH which is run by a big corporation as well and will do whatever it takes to keep that number 2 spots.

The fact that both company seem to be giving performers exclusive contract kinda tell me that they’re no chance that guys from AEW will be able to wrestle in ROH and vice versa. They will go against each other instead of trying to work together to take on vince which would be the smart play here. Anyway, will see what happens when AEW finally debut sometime in the near future but right now it’s fun to speculate what’s going to happen.


#34

I will be very curious of those exclusive deals prevent appearances on MLW, Impact or at PWG shows. I can’t help but think how shortsighted the Bucks would be to turn on the independent circuit that gave them the platform to get to this point. They, as much as anyone, know first hand what that kind of word-of-mouth buzz is worth.

I hear you on Fox and its current Friday night rating as a benchmark but I’d argue they are spending way more on WWE so just getting the same result (with additional advertising hurdles that come with Wrestling) would be a letdown. Not to mention if there is another promotion doing a better number (even if it is on a different night) than WWE.


#35

i’ve heard that the reason FOX gave so much for WWE is because of the fact they it cost more for them to buy original programming then just getting the WWE product. Anyway that’s what i’ve read when the deal was sign. Because let’s not forget that right now, if you look at it, i don’t know how much they are spending on Last man standing, whatever the other sitcom is and Hell’s kitchen, but i bet because it’s outside producing that they are spending a lot of money on that programming especially the 2 scripted shows, while WWE is pretty much producing everything in house. I don’t think the expectation are as high as some people thing they are. Plus with the rumor that this is just a test run by fox to see if they would be interested in buying WWE from Vince which could be a real possibilty, i think they will be really careful in how the program is perceive.

As far as the exclusive deal are concern, i don’t think it’s hope to the Bucks to decide how the whole think will run, it’s on the guy who is paying for the company. If he decide that he wants to go at war with the other super indy, then the bucks and cody can do anything about it. They are there to run the wrestling side of the company just like HHH is for WWE. The business side goes to mr kahn and how he want to run the business. I’m sure the bucks and cody will have a say in how they see the future of the company goes but in the end, he’s paying for this, so he has the last word as to how he want this to play out. If the goal is to go against, ROH, IMPACT and MLW instead of working with them, then i’m pretty sure the exclusive contract will be something like they can wrestle for any indy fed that doesn’T have a tv deal or are on a streaming service which would be bad for the boys especially if they don’t get paid WWE money because the money on the indies is in those big indy feds.


#36

Britt Baker Signs with All Elite Wrestling:
The journalist Dave Meltzer has confirmed in the most recent edition of the Wrestling Observer that the wrestler Britt Baker has signed with All Elite Wrestling (AEW), the new company that will be under the command of The ELITE.

Baker thus becomes the first competitor outside the members of ELITE who will provide services for AEW. The wrestler has spent her 2018 working in companies such as STARDOM and Ring of Honor. He has also had a very fleeting step by WWE, working on one of the last tapings that were made for the NXT show.

In addition to it, it has been confirmed that Cody and Brandi Rhodes, Hangman Page and The Young Bucks have also signed contracts for AEW. According to Meltzer, Cody and the Bucks would have signed up as vice presidents of the promotion, while Brandi would be the key player when looking for female talent.
Source: https://wrestlingculture.com/news/britt-baker-signs-with-all-elite-wrestling/


#37

FWIW I really enjoy discussing this with you @psykohurricane

I would hope the Bucks and Cody have Mr. Kahn’s ear in that, look, if we go to war with super indies and start to appear like the NEW evil empire, people are going to get turned off, and quickly. Especially if we bring in older talent which is clearly part of the strategy. There is a fine line between maintaining that spirit that made All In so successful and quickly becoming Impact 2010.

Also - haven’t seen the point mentioned anywhere else but is it all at surprising that Goldberg would be an easy legend to bring in - he’s got that close relationship with DDP who is very tight with Cody as we saw all summer. Seems like a solid favor for Goldberg to do, especially if his kid is into wrestilng and WWE doesn’t want to use him again so soon.


#38

Speculation is fun, but I guess I am keeping my expectations low since right now we officially know almost nothing. I even found the BTE announcement underwhelming. The AEW name had been leaked for awhile. There was nothing exciting about it being confirmed to be correct. I would have liked to have heard more about exactly what AEW is going to be and why they decided to take on the challenge of starting their own company in 2019 when the market is already saturated with pro-wrestling.

I’m afraid that the hype and speculation is going to hurt them if they aren’t directly competing with WWE by the end of 2019. When in reality just hosting a second All In should be seen as a success for them.


#39

i actually enjoy discussing this with you as well.

I really hope that cody and the bucks can have more power on how things are run because since this is happening mostly because of the success of ALL IN and the fact that all the other indy feds help them pull off the event. So if their somebody that knows what would make this new company successful, is Cody and the bucks. The thing is, most time, investor don’T want to listen to peoples that know what they are doing and just want to cash in on the momentum something has. WCW was the perfect example of a company back up by a millionaire and pretty much ran the company into the ground.

So let’s hope that Mr kahn will let Cody and the bucks give him some advice as to how get the most out of the promotion. As far as the Whole Goldberg thing is concern. Would anybody at this point be interested in seeing Goldberg so soon after his last run? I’m not plus let’s face it, No matter what connection Cody has with DDP, i don’t see Goldberg coming in as a favor to DDP or Cody, so it’s going to cost them a lot of money to bring him in, that is if Goldberg is even able to go because i think he sign a WWE legends contract last year and if he did, that might prohibit him from showing up on a AEW broadcast.

Lastly, do you really want goldberg to show up just to destroy somebody from the roster that you are trying to build up because we know damn well that goldberg won’t sell for somebody that smaller then him. So while the name value might be there, it might not be all that worth the money they might have to pay him just to make your roster look foolish.

The last thing they need right now is legends showing up right away because you want to establish your roster as stars and if you put them alongside legends, they will look like mid card guy and it will be a hard road for them to be taken seriously. Before bringing legends, build your roster up and make them look like major stars then maybe bring in a legends to work with him or her and make them look like a million bucks.


#40

No I don’t want Goldberg (and I’m a big Goldberg mark)
I do think he’d come in (paid well of course) but I was more referring to him even fielding the call oppose to blowing it off since it’s not Vince calling

Kevin Kelly on the last ep of Eggshells had some very insightful comments about what talent production could and should be compared to the money backing a venture. I believe it was taped before the official AEW announcement but clearly he knew what and who the comments were about.