Collision was great this week. That is the kind of show they need to be. Kick ass wrestling with stakes and no bad acting/spooky shit.
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Dude didn’t you post two weeks ago about how AEW is hotter than WWE? So if AEW is hotter than WWE. But overall AEW is cold. So the wrestling industry as a whole is cold. Gee I wonder then John and Wai both must be wrong since they described this as the hottest period in wrestling since the Attitude Era.
Sorry for coming off strong there.
I think Alex is posing two different statements.
The first post was - as a wrestling fan, he feels AEW is a hotter product right now.
This thread is - why is the perception by the majority of people that AEW is cold.
Now, I think it is slightly confusing, but for conversation’s sake, I think that’s it.
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Yes I think @MarkP summarized it better than I could.
I am essentially trying to say the same thing. I fully believe AEW is the hotter product in terms of watchability. However, by conventional metrics annd audience engagement it’s colder.
I’m just trying to figure out why the discrepancy exists
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I saw this in my weekly digest and love the discussions.
My take? Two main reasons:
- I can’t show AEW to my child
Look, a lot of it is…bloody. Cool if you like that, but I don’t seek it myself. No way I’m getting my kid involved, too!
- Can’t watch without cable.
I can catch up with Raw without cable via Hulu. We can watch SD live on Fridays + PPV (PLE) on Saturdays.
Not so much with AEW programming. I COULD pay for Fite via VPN…but I could also just listen to John and Wai. They do a wonderful job.
SO, the shit is ice cold with me and worse, I can’t even use AEW as a reference point as I can with the WWE. I could slip in “The Man” or other casual terms. The odds of the phrase “hung bucks” leaving my mouth and a friend knows exactly what I’m referring to is almost 0%
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It’s a great point. I would extend that even further to the idea of bringing Collision to Canada. It’s only available on a paid streaming service and I would bet the average wrestling fan in Canada does not regularly watch it.
Which is why you look at some of the ticket sales for Collision in Canadian markets and you see low numbers. I’m in Vancouver and will be going to the Collision here but it will be telling to see how that draws.
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A buddy shared this on social media, which he spotted while shopping.
But they’re already hitting local marketing in Ottawa. So I think they’ve learned.
I agree with a good amount of what @kliq wrote, and I also agree that a lot of this is about perception right now, rather than the empirical reality of the product, @Alex_Patel. A few other thoughts:
-The MJF-verse has been a real distraction from in-ring quality, something which AEW hardcores like myself always had plenty of. Even when there were goofy or just plain bad angles on Dynamite, I could just put up with them for a few minutes each week because I knew Kenny and Penta (or whoever) were going to put a clinic on. While the last few weeks, especially on Collision, are clearly a sign of course correction, there’s been almost a full year of Brochacho goofiness being presented as the main focus of the promotion. IMO, that sort of storyline isn’t just bad material in and of itself, but hurts other programs too, because it begins to train fans that entrances and backstage vignettes are the “real” substance of the show, and that it’s okay to sit on your hands during, y’know, the actual wrestling matches.
-To the point about AEW hardcores, I agree with the point the VoW guys often make about AEW now being compared with its own five year history now, rather than against the WWE. Like John said on a Raw review recently, when WWE builds a Nakamura/Cody program by digging back several years into each man’s history and finds parallels, it feels like a masterstroke of storytelling because that company’s presumed that its fans have the memories and attention spans of jack russell terriers on speed for decades. Simple moves like that are easy wins, because they’re a quantum leap beyond what its fans are used to. AEW hasn’t just had a ridiculous back catalog of matches to live up to, it’s also had a rep for rewarding attention to long term and (by pro wrestling standards) subtle cues in the Elite’s programs, MJF’s heel work, and loads of other cases. When even minor gaps in logic appear (or a card is bogged down by kangaroo kick '86 house show BS), that stands out in contrast to the company’s legacy.
-Linking these two points together, when I tune into any wrestling TV show or PPV or whatever, it’s because there’s something about that promotion or that show that is different from what I can see elsewhere. Sometimes that’s as simple as which wrestlers are appearing on it (though there are plenty of wrestlers I love working for companies I don’t watch), but often its deeper and broader than that. When I watch a DDT show I don’t expect them to produce an NJPW-styled show, even if I prefer NJPW to DDT. When I was religiously watching the first few years of NWA Power, it certainly wasn’t because I though the wrestling was better than what I could see on NJPW or the golden age of NXT. It was because those products had a distinct identity which I couldn’t experience anywhere else. Whatever you want to say about Bischoff, he had the right idea with the Nitro blueprint: whatever they’re doing, we do something different (Jesse Collings’ ‘be Red Bull, not another Coke’ analogy is bang on). We could speculate for days about whether the sneaking WWEisms in AEW are due to MJF, due to Mike Mansury, due to Jimmy Jacobs, or whether even we think those changes make for “better” pro wrestling TV. But the problem is that they make the product less distinct from what’s been on the other channel for decades, and they’re leagues ahead in terms of money, media integration, broader cultural clout, and brand loyalty. We all know how TNA bottomed out trying to chase WWE’s tail rather than investing in the talent and qualities which made them different. While, sure, there might be some fans who like the WWEified flavour in AEW, they already have five to seven hours of it on tap a week elsewhere, and will always view AEW as a fallback. How many times have you heard this play out:
“I’ll have a Coke, please.”
“Is Pepsi okay?”
“Oh, sure, that’s fine I guess.”
AEW can’t afford to be Pepsi in this situation, like Jesse alluded to. Be Red Bull. Be iced tea. Be kombucha, FFS. But don’t be a secondary version of Coke.
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Thought I’d pop in to say that I’m seeing ads for
AEW collision on train advertising in Vancouver. Saw it for the first time this week.
The ad I saw was different and had Omega at the center bottom and Julia Hart top right.
No, unless I have a date who’s taking me, and I’m guaranteed Omega and Dr. Britt Baker, I’m not interested. Guarantee me those two and I’ll give AEW my money again. Even for a one time fling - like I did for forbidden door.
But I thought to myself “at least they’re trying. I hope it helps them fill up Rogers Arena.” Side note: I also thought “five years and you’re finally making your debut in one of the largest possible markets in Canada…”
This. Mr. Lord always on point.
“Be Red Bull.” In more than one way - from the F1 dork, AEW needs to be Red Bull. I don’t listen to VoW, but Jesse is on point with this take.
And at one point, AEW was Red Bull.
That’s actually a great point. Do any kids even like wrestling these days? Or is it 40 year old dads pushing it on their kids.
I agree if I had kids I’d probably have to revert to WWE.
Wrestling doesn’t seem something 15-25 year olds love. They’re too busy having fun
It’s something you like as a kid with your parents then again when you’re nostalgic hitting 30.
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While I’m not, 100% other friends are. WWE has generational fans at this point.
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I agree - I also think it’s a lack of a star that appeals to children
Most of us had Hogan growing up and the generation prior had Cena
No one right now really appeals to children (maybe Cody is the closest) but they don’t have that Dudley do right type of superhero face. My own son has no interest in it at age 9.
I agree age 15-25 just seems like they are too busy with other stuff. So much more access to content and gaming for kids now. I’ve heard Dave say on his pod how his own son has no interest in it either and he’s in his early 20s as I recall
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I’ve tried to get my five-year-old to watch. Not pushing it on him, would just be nice to have something we can watch together instead of watching other people play video games on YouTube.
He’s had no interest in modern WWE, but I might see if I can get him into the Hulkamania era (I’ll explain when he’s older why the red and yellow guy is problematic).
Surely any 5 year old can’t not like Hacksaw Jim Diggan, Coco Beware and Macho man
Saw one on the SkyTrain today just a few hours after buying my presale tix! Whole lotta Canadian Content here.
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Booking. And if its true that theyre going to go more wrestling related and get rid of storylines and angles, the ratings are only going to get worse.
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Tony really really needs to put someone else in charge of booking
It’s just that simple. Tournaments for the sake of tournaments, matches for the sake of matches. Only the hardcore fans care. Wrestling is such a niche hobby you’ve gotta cast as wide a net as possible, and they can’t do it because Tony is too focused on his latest “Dream Match” that presumably came to him in an actual dream.
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Keep spouting regurgitated bad faith critiques.
Meanwhile, the last three months have had way more storyline driven content than ever before.
And those who actually watch week to week, and support the product - and those who have drifted away from the product - beg for more in ring action.
The Continental Classic has been keeping ratings consistent over the last few weeks. If you don’t like it, don’t watch at this point.
And take a look at how Kenny Omega matches do in the ratings. Consistently, his singles matches are a ratings bump. Specifically those “dream matches”.
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