He has openly talked about wanting to be known as a great character actor. So far, he has been fantastic in that.
" Do not compare me to The Rock or John Cena. Everyone does it,” and he “hates” it. “Those guys are wrestlers who became movie stars. I’m … something else. I was a wrestler. Now, I’m an actor.”
A good little article about that…
I disagree. I think Cena is a main stream draw. Just because a certain portion of the hardcore WWE fanbase chose to hate on him. It doesn’t mean he’s not mainstream. Cena definitely broke through to the casual audience. It wasn’t just kids but people who don’t watch Wrestling regularly. If you achieve that then your definitely mainstream.
I guess my opinion is tainted because Cena was on top during a period of the business when audiences decreased. He was never there during a boom / nor responsible for a boom.
I feel Cena is in the same boat as Bret or Shawn or Angle. Or even Taker for that matter. A star within the wrestling bubble. A main eventer no doubt. And somebody who people outside of wrestling may know
But not somebody who was a celebrity outside of wrestling - during his full-time career.
Did it decrease? I mean i would say it decreased at the tail end of Cenas career as a full timer. If your basing this strictly on TV ratings and comparing it to the attitude era. Then yeah it would look like it decreased. Even though one could easily argue that the reason the Attitude era ratings were so high was mostly thanks to WCW being around and getting red hot. Also when Cena was the top draw. It was one of the most profitable eras for WWE PPV buy wise ever.
Oh come on even though I like all those guys more than Cena. They never came close to the business Cena did. I can’t even count Angle because the top guys were still active when he was around. Yeah the business was down because they were trying to rebuild after Hogan left. But Cena was in the same situation as well after Rock and Austin left. The difference is Cena with Batista were able to keep the momentum going from the era they were following and the Bret, Shawn, Taker couldn’t
If you don’t want to put Cena with the big three. He at least belongs with a Sammartino, Flair, and Andre in terms of being a draw.
I never said he wasn’t a headliner, or star. I am saying he wasn’t a mainstream breakout celebrity. I would separate Andre from Flair or Bruno, as he did become TV and movie star during his time as a wrestler.
You can be one, without the other. Not being a mainstream celebrity while also being a wrestler, does not discount his success as a wrestler.
I also feel if there was no Cena to come along, WWE would have hitched their wagon to an Orton or Batista, or one of the many others on their roster, and still, by and large, done the exact same business for the following decade.
Whereas Rock, Austin and Hogan, all changed the trajectory of WWE’s future.
I totally respect your opinion, and just think we have a different take and definition of the type of star we think he was.
This idea that you have to be at a Hogan or Austin level to be considered a star is insane. It’s also insane that WWE should be expected to always deliver that level of star or WWE should be seen as failing. I guess wrestling has been a failure for most of its existence…
To be fair, I don’t think anyone is arguing that WWE is “failing” in general, if they did they would loose all credibility given the year WWE is having. The argument which I think is valid is “WWE is not currently producing “stars””. WWE can be a successful company AND not create stars, the two are not mutually exclusive.
WWE is successful because of years of branding, incredibly strong merchandising, great TV deals (which is because of the strong branding) and because they are a cut throat bottom line driven company.
Also, while they do product shitty content at times, they also are capable of producing great stuff.
They’re creating stars within wrestling. Breaking into the consciousness of people that don’t pay attention to wrestling is too high of a standard for wrestling. Only reason it’s being applied here is to support this idea that WWE haven’t created stars and apparently don’t even want to create stars (which is a dumb thing to say as they benefit off of it. They still make money from the stars they previously made so they obviously would be okay with making money from any current ones). In order for this idea to make sense, there needs to be a way to invalidate everyone who’s a star within wrestling but not a star outside of it so the standard is now put in a place where only a few wrestlers have ever reached.
This whole discussion is to try and invalidate the idea of NXT India. NXT as a whole as well. “If they’re not gonna create stars (and you have to be Hogan level to be a star) then why bother with NXT?” is a weird mentality to have for any sane wrestling fan.
I dont think thats what being argued either, my impression is that the conversation is specifically in relation to mainstream media stars, hence the examples of Hogan, Austin, and Rock.
I just want to add, if we are talking stars, I think in Canada at least you can add Bret to that list.
But why does developing that level of star have anything to do with NXT promotions existing? They have to be that level of star for NXT promotions to be worthwhile? Is that not an insane standard to place on NXT (which is only being placed by AEW tribalists desperately wanting to criticise WWE and it’s a standard they’d never apply to AEW).
Ya I’m not defending that part at all, but like I said before I think thats just a very vocal minority.
Here is the reality, having NXT around the world is great for WWE, but it will likely suck for fans who aren’t into WWE because it will hurt every promotion that is not WWE. I 100% get why some fans do not want this, I will never argue that point and I’m not even saying I personally want it.
With that said, some fans will try to frame this as a mistake for WWE because of how much they personally hate the idea, but just because an idea sucks for the fans, it doesnt mean its a bad business decision.
Some people make the whole AEW/NXT thing weird. Just enjoy both, or watch one and ignore the other. Whatever, to each their own.
I apologize for taking this thread off into a tangential discussion.
Exactly the conversation that was being had. And yes, in Canada, for a period, Bret definitely was considered a mainstream celebrity.